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  1. #31
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    The grass is always greener on the other side, isn't it.

    Most of this is as stereotyped as the OP. Being an SJ doesn't make you automatically popular, well-adjusted or conformist (or "normal"). Depression happens in SJs, too.
    God, yes. What's wrong with people that they needed this pointed out to them?

    Elfboy, it is plainly obvious that the ONLY motivation you could have had when making this thread was to flatter yourself. You are not interested in finding out the differences between types, but rather you simply wanted to use this as an excuse to point out how awesome you are in comparison.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Noon's Avatar
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    so basically what I'm deducing is that to more eager-to-please, conscientious and socialable people who are not SJ, it would seem like an ideal type because you could actually fit in with people and get things done. for a wild lone wolf like myself, it seems kinda scary from the outside.
    I will never understand claims like these. Do you guys think that the millions of Americans bullied and isolated each year are facing that because of abstract perception or something? That the millions suffering from depression and anxiety would automagically be cured if they thought concretely and enjoyed stable guidelines? That you must deeply relish metaphor to be prone to poverty or motivation issues?

    If the majority of Americans really are SJ and a substantial portion of Americans are suffering from some of the above issues, that alone should tell you that SJ doesn't equal "normal" and perfectly molded, shouldn't it?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I'm not trying to sound insulting or derogatory, but I feel like I would die if I turned into an SJ. Does it ever get hard having that Si voice in your head constantly being like "you're supposed to do this" "it's your duty to do that" "RULES!!!". I mean, it's gotta be at least a LITTLE bit stressful. what's it's like having Si as your first or second function?
    I don't mean this in a hostile way but that really doesn't make any sense. You'd die as an if SJ only if you were still viewing yourself from an NF lense which you couldnt be if you werent one. SJ's probably feel as though theyd go crazy from lack of order if they had to be an ENFP

  4. #34
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron
    And as Patches said, it's just as crazy to me imagining a world where Ne provides the "foundation" for everything (if such a thing could be called a foundation) / a world where barely anything is ever certain. That probably doesn't sound so horrible to you, because it's like that in your head all the time, I suppose. But that's the point about "perspectives."
    lol yep. open possibility is comfortable to me.

    What is Si like, in this case? I'm getting the idea that it's kind of like depth-perception, to relate it metaphorically to physical sense-of-sight. When someone gives me a blank slate and tells me to make something, I feel no way to judge the direction of it, because it has no parameters. I could keep thinking of different things to do, and not know which one to choose, because my "depth-perception" is thrown off.
    cool, that's interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    The amount of times that NFPs experience Fi-related stress are just about equal to the amount of times that SJs experience Si-related stress (if not more, in the case of INFPs): occasional. The functions really do not matter as much as their positions (and corresponding roles) do.
    !!

  5. #35
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    The grass is always greener on the other side, isn't it.

    Most of this is as stereotyped as the OP. Being an SJ doesn't make you automatically popular, well-adjusted or conformist (or "normal"). Depression happens in SJs, too.
    I know that. But I decided that if the OP was going to try and show how great being an NF was, and make the assumption that being an SJ sucked... there needed to be a counter-rant showing how much being an NF sucks, and how much better SJs have it. That way, his viewpoint wouldn't dominate the entire thread. Just saying something neutral like "Being an SJ isn't that much different from being any other type, it just means that you tend to be comfortable living according to your preferences" wouldn't have had any effect on the thread, and likely would have been ignored.

    I mean, yeah, sometimes I may think being an SJ would be easier because it would be more typical, but I'm sure they have their own problems in life, and may very well want to be different themselves at times.

  6. #36
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    God, yes. What's wrong with people that they needed this pointed out to them?

    Elfboy, it is plainly obvious that the ONLY motivation you could have had when making this thread was to flatter yourself. You are not interested in finding out the differences between types, but rather you simply wanted to use this as an excuse to point out how awesome you are in comparison.
    you have clearly not read any of my posts very thoroughly. please do so if you wish to comment on my intentions which have been layed out previous times

  7. #37
    hypersane Hive's Avatar
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    Well it is perfectly clear that you created this thread with a prejudice against SJ's. The way you describe them make them sound like mindless drones incapable of independent thought.

  8. #38
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    you have clearly not read any of my posts very thoroughly. please do so if you wish to comment on my intentions which have been layed out previous times
    No, I read all of your posts very thoroughly. Nothing I've said is as a result of not having read or comprehended your words. To comment on intentions is not literally to repeat back what someone says, but rather to "read between the lines." Isn't that something you, as an NF, should know?

    Sure, you've said the words "I don't mean to offend," or "I'm not trying to be derogatory," but as Emectar pointed out, your original post was senseless because it would only "suck to be an SJ" if you were viewing it through an NF lens. Therefore, your intention couldn't possibly have been to actually find anything out, since you've already assumed from the start what it's like to have Si in the first or second position, and explained exactly why that would suck. Why, if you were genuinely interested in knowing about what Si is like, would you already presume that it sucks, or that it's stressful? In the first place, how would you know, other than by projecting onto Si traits that you see as undesirable? And if you did know, then why even ask the question? That leads me to suspicion that you really just wanted another opportunity to rail on about how great your own type is by comparison, because you're not similarly constrained by "rules" and "duty" (even though the rules thing is more Te than Si, if anything, but I digress) and it gives you a sense of superiority to point that out (since that is something you clearly value about yourself.)

    As another poster pointed out, it's like going to an NAACP convention, asking "doesn't it suck to be black?" and then, after being called out on it, rationalizing by saying "well, I didn't mean for it to be offensive." It doesn't matter what you say after that because no amount of rationalizing is going to make the inherent offensiveness of what you said disappear.
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  9. #39
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Orangey, while I agree that the social filters of Elfboy need adjusting, your intuiting of his motivations isn't exactly very politically correct either. He's said that that is hardly his intention, and it would be decent of you to accept that statement as the truth unless you have some irrefutable proof of the opposite.

    Fwiw, I do recognize this type of questioning and however not smart this tactic is, it's part of the ENFP's unfiltered curiosity. Elfboy, correct me if I'm wrong (coz I am making only an educated guess coz I think I can relate). When it's hard to really understand when you can't for the life of you imagine something, especially for someone who wants to understand it all and the curiosity at that point makes you crude in posing that question. Now, normally you do this with a cheeky grin irl, translating it as not being your serious vision, but a plea to make you understand and enrich your perspective. But that gets lost in a written medium. It can also get lost irl, when the not being able to understand has created frustration that accidentily gets put into the question being asked, which then causes it to look as a judgement. Hence..social filter fail. It's due to impatience, overenthusiasm, over curiosity to find that answer you seek, which can overshadow the lightheartedness of how you meant to ask that question. That however, is the only motivation I have, when I blurt things like that.

    Just my two cents
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  10. #40
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    Orangey, while I agree that the social filters of Elfboy need adjusting, your intuiting of his motivations isn't exactly very politically correct either. He's said that that is hardly his intention, and it would be decent of you to accept that statement as the truth unless you have some irrefutable proof of the opposite.

    Fwiw, I do recognize this type of questioning and however not smart this tactic is, it's part of the ENFP's unfiltered curiosity. Elfboy, correct me if I'm wrong (coz I am making only an educated guess coz I think I can relate). When it's hard to really understand when you can't for the life of you imagine something, especially for someone who wants to understand it all and the curiosity at that point makes you crude in posing that question. Now, normally you do this with a cheeky grin irl, translating it as not being your serious vision, but a plea to make you understand and enrich your perspective. But that gets lost in a written medium. It can also get lost irl, when the not being able to understand has created frustration that accidentily gets put into the question being asked, which then causes it to look as a judgement. Hence..social filter fail. It's due to impatience, overenthusiasm, over curiosity to find that answer you seek, which can overshadow the lightheartedness of how you meant to ask that question. That however, is the only motivation I have, when I blurt things like that.

    Just my two cents
    For what it's worth, I never actually took offense from Elfboy's post. His original post actually echoed thoughts I've similarly had about other types. What I was trying to point out with my post is that we are born the way we are and it's very difficult for me to conceptualize what it means to have a different primary or aux function.

    I actually said this in another post somewhere but it was actually a shock to me to learn that other people didn't process and understand the world the way I did when I first started learning about MBTI. Comparing current events to past experience and drawing connections from those past experiences (the hallmark of Si as I understand it) just seemed to me the most commonsensical way of looking at things. To learn that other people didn't do this....shit, it makes me wonder how those of you without Si manage to remember to tie your shoes in the morning

    So again, I took no offense to his original post as his thoughts are exactly the sort of thoughts I've had sometimes about other types and I hope you other types didn't take any offense to this post from me
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

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