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  1. #11
    Senior Member Tabula's Avatar
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    prefer

    verb (used with object), -ferred, -fer·ring.
    1. to set or hold before or above other persons or things in estimation; like better; choose rather than: to prefer beef to chicken.

    If an SJ were to experience and regard Si the same way you do, why would they be an SJ and you an NF?

    I prefer beef. You prefer chicken.

    Ew, how do you like beef?! Chicken tastes so much better! It must really suck to like the taste of beef.

    No, by definition, it doesn't, or else I wouldn't like it.
    I like beef the same as you like chicken. Both are options on the menu for a reason.

  2. #12
    hypersane Hive's Avatar
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    Not an SJ myself. Though I can imagine being one on a typology forum can suck, just look at all the shit they have to put up with.

    Elfboy, you're seriously horrible at MBTI theory. Your view on it is extremly stereotypical and I feel embaressed while reading your posts. I seriously laughed out loud when I saw you say that NF's are the most intelligent and I did it now while reading this thread.

    Jesus fucking Christ.

  3. #13
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    elfboy i don't mean to be cruel but this really is kind of a spectacular tact fail even for an NP.

    i think the thing is, it would suck for an NP to try to be an SJ because that is not how we are wired. equally it would probably suck for an SJ to try to be an NP because that is not how they are wired.

    i mean, do you hate Ne sometimes? of course. it really sucks sometimes. we say inappropriate things before we really think about them (eg this thread, no offense, lord knows i've done worse), we can't decide because we want ALL the options, and we miss the $100 bill on the ground because we're off pondering fibonacci numbers or something completely irrelevant like that. on the other hand, it's also insightful, fun, and free. i can't imagine it being any different with Si for an SJ. in some ways it sucks; in others, it's awesome.

    so i can't answer for all SJs, but my ESFJ mom seems to enjoy life very much. she is not a very tense, rulebound person herself, in fact. i think all that rulebound stuff is how Si looks to an NP more than how it actually is. to us, Si guidelines may seem limiting, but in truth, you and i as FPs enforce Fi rules upon ourselves all the time. but we don't begrudge them, because we understand the rules not as restrictions, but as "the way things should be".

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantonym
    Maybe the Si voice is actually something that gives comfort?
    Quote Originally Posted by Noon
    If you are indeed ENFP, you're probably projecting inferior Si onto others and is perhaps why it makes you think having higher Si would be insufferable. What you are fundamentally missing is that your complex (the particular way Si is behaving and your own reaction to it) is somewhat unique to those with inferior (ENP) or shadow (NFJ) Si. For an actual SJ, Si is prone to be just as relaxing as Ne is for you (with just as many occasional annoyances as you too may get from Ne).


    i think an NP perspective on Si and SJs is almost bound to be negative in some ways because we don't understand the Si subtleties and nuances, the ways it's incredibly useful and the ways it holds the world together. because Si seems to impedes our usage of Ne, we don't naturally look at how awesome it is. but just like Ne for us, Si is the ocean an SJ swims in. we don't understand how it's comforting because it throws off our personal balance, but it's the natural state for an SJ. it's "home". plus, interestingly - if what uumlau and orobas have been hypothesizing is true, Si is actually key to the usage of Ne, as it forms the concrete systems which allowing our Ne idea surfing to take place. and Ne is key to Si, because it provides the idea-space and linkage in which Si can form concrete systems.

    my general point being, that it would suck for an NP to be an SJ. good thing we're not.

    we should leave that to the experts

  4. #14
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    I'm not trying to sound insulting or derogatory
    despite explicitly saying this, it appears I have been labeled as an SJ basher. the point of my thread was that Dominant or Auxilary Si seems like it would be kind of a burden to me and I'm trying to under it better (perhaps it isn't a burden, I'm just trying to understand better what it is and what people who use it frequently are like)

    Don't you have any rules of your own, things that you feel you're supposed to do? I'm not even talking about what the society seems to expect of you, but isn't all that sort of involved with any kind of goals one sets to themselves no matter where they fall in some typology theory? Is it hard? Is life hard?
    I do have goals, rather ambitious ones actually, that I am working towards, but I'm never self conscious, consciencious or hard on myself (actually, I kinda pamper the shit out of myself lol). on that note though, I am learning the value of routine and using rules as a starting point in combination with Ne to get better results. Intuition only goes so far. you can't just intuitively grasp how to play the piano without playing hundreds of scales with very precise fingering.

    Doesn't it suck being an NF who is constantly ruled by your own emotions and has no rhyme or reason to any of their actions?
    I get what your saying, even if that description is pretty much the exact opposite of me

    No. It doesn't suck being an SJ.
    yay!

    This is delightfully ironic considering that you are an NFP, lol
    In my experience, Fi moral perfectionism is equal to, if not more than, the amount of stress one could possibly get from Si propriety perfectionism.
    this is a common misunderstanding about Fi. there are times where auxilary Fi (I can't speak for dominant Fi) is extremely hard on the user, but these times are few and far between. ENFPs as a whole don't tend to be very hard on themselves (although I think INFPs do)
    [QUOTEIf you are indeed ENFP, you're probably projecting inferior Si onto others and is perhaps why it makes you think having higher Si would be insufferable. What you are fundamentally missing is that your complex (the particular way Si is behaving and your own reaction to it) is somewhat unique to those with inferior (ENP) or shadow (NFJ) Si. For an actual SJ, Si is prone to be just as relaxing as Ne is for you (with just as many occasional annoyances as you too may get from Ne).

    To further answer your question though, yes, if I can be considered a proper example of SJ, it is tough being SJ sometimes. I experience this when my needs are continually not being met (in times of heightened stress in other words). I start to think of those needs as character flaws and might wish I didn't have them. I believe a similar thing can happen with non-SJs too. ][/QUOTE]
    thankyou, this is the kind of answer I was looking for

  5. #15
    Klingon Warrior Princess Patches's Avatar
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    I feel more stressed WITHOUT rules and guidelines.
    “Everybody has a secret world inside of them. All of the people of the world, I mean everybody. No matter how dull and boring they are on the outside, inside
    them they've all got unimaginable, magnificent, wonderful, stupid, amazing worlds. Not just one world. Hundreds of them. Thousands maybe.” -Neil Gaiman

    ~

  6. #16
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Not an SJ myself. Though I can imagine being one on a typology forum can suck, just look at all the shit they have to put up with.

    Elfboy, you're seriously horrible at MBTI theory. Your view on it is extremly stereotypical and I feel embaressed while reading your posts.
    Your comment confuses me. You appear to be making me out to a know it all when I simply asked a question. I am well aware that my understanding of SJs is meager at best, hence my reasons for starting this thread. okay, the title was kinda controversial, but I made it explicitly clear that my intent was not what you are so obviously implying.

    Not an SJ myself. Though I can imagine being one on a typology forum can suck, just look at all the shit they have to put up with.
    agreed, again another reason why I started this thread in the first place. in the sea of rambling intuitives that is Type C (self included lol) many of us are confused about how SJs operate and know next to nothing about them (again, self included)

  7. #17
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patches View Post
    I feel more stressed WITHOUT rules and guidelines.
    interesting, could you elaborate?

  8. #18
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    What's interesting to me about this question is that it seems to presuppose that I might have any idea what it means to be something other than an SJ.

    I'm an Si-dom and have always been. It's how I've always looked at the world. The only way I could possibly answer your question meaningfully is if I could somehow override my Introverted Sensing and replace it with something else. Since I really can't do that (at least not in a way that doesn't involve going insane) all I can say is: I'm happy being an SJ.

    Yes, we can be really stubborn sticks in the mud sometimes and yes being an Si-dom can have it's drawbacks. But I feel that me and those like me provide a very useful purpose to the world we live in today and I'm glad to be that
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

  9. #19
    Senior Member Noon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    plus, interestingly - if what uumlau and orobas have been hypothesizing is true, Si is actually key to the usage of Ne, as it forms the concrete systems which allowing our Ne idea surfing to take place. and Ne is key to Si, because it provides the idea-space and linkage in which Si can form concrete systems.
    This is it in a nutshell. Also why I tend to think that dominant is more akin to "pure" than it is to "strong", and that inferior does not mean "weak". My Ne is alive and working, it's just different. I assume the same for ENPs and don't really drop this assumption even if they mention something about poor memories or inability to be absorbed in the moment (neither of which = Si).

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    there are times where auxilary Fi (I can't speak for dominant Fi) is extremely hard on the user, but these times are few and far between.
    This was actually my point. The amount of times that NFPs experience Fi-related stress are just about equal to the amount of times that SJs experience Si-related stress (if not more, in the case of INFPs): occasional. The functions really do not matter as much as their positions (and corresponding roles) do.

  10. #20
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unsung View Post
    Not an SJ myself. Though I can imagine being one on a typology forum can suck, just look at all the shit they have to put up with.

    Elfboy, you're seriously horrible at MBTI theory. Your view on it is extremly stereotypical and I feel embaressed while reading your posts. I seriously laughed out loud when I saw you say that NF's are the most intelligent and I did it now while reading this thread.

    Jesus fucking Christ.
    +1000000.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

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