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  1. #1
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    Default ENFP - Big Talk with an ISTJ

    I'm gonna try and get to the point...

    My boyfriend and I have been discussing marriage for a while now, we've been dating for several years. It seems as though we are at a point in our life where we will get engaged in the next year or so. One (!) of the things holding us back is not having a steady 'real' job. We figured once one of us lands a well paying job, then we'll get engaged.

    Again, there's some things holding us back from getting engaged, basically the same ol' ENFP-ISTJ problems that this forum is flooded with. We are SO different, and we love each other SO MUCH, but should love be this difficult to keep a relationship together? Would it be easier if we dating other people... blah blah blah.

    Anyways, He is a homebody, a ma-ma's boy, and a super sheltered guy. I'm close with my family, but I feel like I am not nearly (!!) as attached as he is.

    We both lived in the same town for most of us relationship (I recently moved an hour and a half away, but still see him a couple times a week). Our hometown is DEAD. It's a dying city. Poor economy, poor outlook, horrible crime, it really dampens me as an NF. It gets me down. Plus, the weather there really bums me out too.

    Ahh, anyways, I've voiced to him over the years that I do not want to live in our home town forever. And that it's a city that no one can escape. It's full of failure. and I am bigger than that. I want to be happy, and I do not want to be another person who feels like they cannot leave that city. (Thankfully, I got to move out). He, on the otherhand, does not agree. He says, friends and family are in our hometown so it's not that bad.

    That's his only argument for not wanting to move once we get married. I am trying to explain to him that I will be UNHAPPY if I am forced to buckle down in a town like that. I want something bigger and brighter and more hopeful. I want change. I want to explore the other side. I'm not saying move away to a whole other country. But why not another state? A city miles away? What is the big deal? So what if it is away from our friends and family. Our family (ugh, hate to say it) won't be around forever. and our friends one-by-one are moving away as well. We can make new friends.

    He told me today that in the new few days he wants to discuss this idea of me being so set on moving away...

    How can I explain to him in perhaps Si-Te terms about it being OK to move away from home? I feel like when I am talking to him about this i am SO passionate that I am just spewing NF at him and he doesn't get it.

    ....is this conversation worth breaking us up?
    I mean, if we move, He'll be unhappy. If we stay, i'll be unhappy....
    how do couples make decisions like this?

  2. #2
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    That is a huge personality difference and he sounds like a person who will weigh you down for the rest of your life. I am not mincing words because I think that you are much younger than me, and the ENFP drive to see new things, to crave change, all of that doesn't go away. If you give into him, you will feel trapped, and if you force him out with you, you may find yourself having a chat like this again after three or four years of marriage in the new city.

    Sorry to be such a Debbie Downer, but that's my take on what I see here, and it's not just because he's ISTJ - it's the type of ISTJ you describe him to be.

  3. #3
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    I'd focus on TJ goals. If he *knew* that everything he tried, he'd succeed at, what kind of a person would he want to be? (Take away the fear of imperfection and failure, and let him focus on dreams.) How is he planning on giving back to the world--what makes him uniquely qualified to pursue excellence in some area?

    When he's on his deathbed, what is the best version of his life story he'd be proud of?

    If he wants to do his kickass duty, he's going to have to do his figurative pushups and become strong enough to do it and do it well. Growing always comes with growing pains, and he's going to need to struggle to become the caterpillar cum butterfly.

    Then, later, if he wants, he can use his strengths and resources to enrich your hometown in some way, and give back to those loved ones.

    Remind him that he *will* find his social niche there, and that you have confidence he's strong enough to get through the transition period and be a bigger man for it.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
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  4. #4
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    i understand your ENFPy feelings

    obviously i'm not an SJ, but i figured i'd throw my two thoughts out there anyway...

    1. maybe you could compromise to a relatively nearby city? maybe not something quite as big and happy and far away as you're hoping (but can we ever really meet that ideal?), something close enough that he can still see his family and friends on the weekends?

    2. you might want to offer to orchestrate family / mutual friend meetings. that way he can see that you clearly want to stay in touch - you don't want to break him away from things that are very important to him.

    anyway hopefully the SJs will have more betterer suggestions

    good luck!!

  5. #5
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    I agree with focusing on the goals. What are his goals? Can he accomplish them in your hometown? If yes, this is likely why he can see himself be so comfortable there. If no, then other things are likely encouraging him to hold fast to the roots - indeed, family & friends.

    So - you need to discuss - his goals, your goals, and your goals as a couple and try to come to some sense of direction. And, if you both indeed mutually agree to move away, have a plan ahead of time to visit home. Like, a few times a year at least. This plan will be a source of great comfort to him, and it will make him feel happy when he reflects on it.

    Good luck.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
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    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
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  6. #6
    Senior Member uberrogo's Avatar
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    Unless you can present some reason to move (IDK what will change his mind), he will probably eventually give in and resent you for it.
    If Men's Health magazine was true, you would never need to buy more than one issue.

  7. #7
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    I forsee possible resentment on her side, too. Lots and lots of resentment.

  8. #8
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I am not mincing words because I think that you are much younger than me, and the ENFP drive to see new things, to crave change, all of that doesn't go away. If you give into him, you will feel trapped, and if you force him out with you, you may find yourself having a chat like this again after three or four years of marriage in the new city.
    I'm in my mid-twenties. I do go through times where I need change, but it's mainly like personal changes..... but I've always kind of hoped that my desire to find change would subside down the road... guess I should realize it wont. My boyfriend is always throwing my liking for the grass is always greener... that's what he thinks when I tell him about moving, he said he thinks that I'll never be happy no matter where we are because I'll want something else...


    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    I'd focus on TJ goals. If he *knew* that everything he tried, he'd succeed at, what kind of a person would he want to be? (Take away the fear of imperfection and failure, and let him focus on dreams.) How is he planning on giving back to the world--what makes him uniquely qualified to pursue excellence in some area?.
    Very insightful. Great advice. I will do this. I've motivated him to positively affect his world around him, but problems are that he doesn't have much friends so it's hard for him.... I've asked him about his dreams/goals before. He gets down on himself for not having goals. I tend to avoid these talks because it ends up with him hating himself and being upset that he doesn't have goals. He gets all perfectionist and gets depressed. I think in our next talk, I will really dig into him. I know his goals are to get married and have kids. Plain and simple. He doesn't really know what he wants for a career, though he is looking into finance and such. Obvious ISTJ things. He thinks that he won't be successful, but I know if he tried he would be. I know that I have bigger goals and dreams for myself than he has for himself.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    1. maybe you could compromise to a relatively nearby city? maybe not something quite as big and happy and far away as you're hoping (but can we ever really meet that ideal?), something close enough that he can still see his family and friends on the weekends?

    2. you might want to offer to orchestrate family / mutual friend meetings. that way he can see that you clearly want to stay in touch - you don't want to break him away from things that are very important to him.
    !
    Love your #2 suggestion!! And as for #1, I've discussed being willing to move within a close radius of home--though, I really want warm weather eventually. Winter brings me down. He doesn't understand how the weather affects my mood...is this just an NF thing?


    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    What are his goals? Can he accomplish them in your hometown? If yes, this is likely why he can see himself be so comfortable there. If no, then other things are likely encouraging him to hold fast to the roots - indeed, family & friends.

    So - you need to discuss - his goals, your goals, and your goals as a couple and try to come to some sense of direction.
    Thanks! Great advice as well. As stated before, I know for a fact his goal is to get married and start a family. I know that he sees it best to start a family around our families. He is such an ISTJ, but man, he is kind of Feely when it comes to family stuff.... lol So he figures that it's no biggie if we raise them in our home town since that's what we know, what we're used to, what we're familiar with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I forsee possible resentment on her side, too. Lots and lots of resentment.
    .... I do too .... I feel like I am being selfish because i really have passion for getting away.... Who is suppose to sacrifice? I feel like I already do so much in our relationship and I know he feels like he does too...

  9. #9
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    Again, there's some things holding us back from getting engaged, basically the same ol' ENFP-ISTJ problems that this forum is flooded with. We are SO different, and we love each other SO MUCH, but should love be this difficult to keep a relationship together?
    If you are SO different, then why do you love each other SO MUCH?

    Would it be easier if we dating other people... blah blah blah.
    Yes it would... blah blah blah.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  10. #10
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    If you are SO different, then why do you love each other SO MUCH?

    Yes it would... blah blah blah.
    Wellll someone doesn't like ISTJ-ENFP relationships

    Anyways, just because you are different from someone doesn't mean you can't love them.

    we are very different, but for the most part, we really complete each other. I loosen him up, he keeps me responsible. I need him, and I believe he needs me. We both have similar lifestyle values in place such as faith, which is very important to me. There are many things about him that I have never met in another man, and don't think I ever will.

    we've been together for over 6 years. He is not something I find easy to throw away. I just want to find the best way to make each of us happy in the ways that we differ.

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