[MBTI General] ENFP - Big Talk with an ISTJ

[2XtremeENFP]

I'm gonna try and get to the point...

My boyfriend and I have been discussing marriage for a while now, we've been dating for several years. It seems as though we are at a point in our life where we will get engaged in the next year or so. One (!) of the things holding us back is not having a steady 'real' job. We figured once one of us lands a well paying job, then we'll get engaged.

Again, there's some things holding us back from getting engaged, basically the same ol' ENFP-ISTJ problems that this forum is flooded with. We are SO different, and we love each other SO MUCH, but should love be this difficult to keep a relationship together? Would it be easier if we dating other people... blah blah blah.

Anyways, He is a homebody, a ma-ma's boy, and a super sheltered guy. I'm close with my family, but I feel like I am not nearly (!!) as attached as he is.

We both lived in the same town for most of us relationship (I recently moved an hour and a half away, but still see him a couple times a week). Our hometown is DEAD. It's a dying city. Poor economy, poor outlook, horrible crime, it really dampens me as an NF. It gets me down. Plus, the weather there really bums me out too.

Ahh, anyways, I've voiced to him over the years that I do not want to live in our home town forever. And that it's a city that no one can escape. It's full of failure. and I am bigger than that. I want to be happy, and I do not want to be another person who feels like they cannot leave that city. (Thankfully, I got to move out). He, on the otherhand, does not agree. He says, friends and family are in our hometown so it's not that bad.

That's his only argument for not wanting to move once we get married. I am trying to explain to him that I will be UNHAPPY if I am forced to buckle down in a town like that. I want something bigger and brighter and more hopeful. I want change. I want to explore the other side. I'm not saying move away to a whole other country. But why not another state? A city miles away? What is the big deal? So what if it is away from our friends and family. Our family (ugh, hate to say it) won't be around forever. and our friends one-by-one are moving away as well. We can make new friends.

He told me today that in the new few days he wants to discuss this idea of me being so set on moving away...

How can I explain to him in perhaps Si-Te terms about it being OK to move away from home? I feel like when I am talking to him about this i am SO passionate that I am just spewing NF at him and he doesn't get it.

....is this conversation worth breaking us up?
I mean, if we move, He'll be unhappy. If we stay, i'll be unhappy....
how do couples make decisions like this?

 

[Thalassa]

That is a huge personality difference and he sounds like a person who will weigh you down for the rest of your life. I am not mincing words because I think that you are much younger than me, and the ENFP drive to see new things, to crave change, all of that doesn't go away. If you give into him, you will feel trapped, and if you force him out with you, you may find yourself having a chat like this again after three or four years of marriage in the new city.

Sorry to be such a Debbie Downer, but that's my take on what I see here, and it's not just because he's ISTJ - it's the type of ISTJ you describe him to be.

 

[Usehername]

I'd focus on TJ goals. If he *knew* that everything he tried, he'd succeed at, what kind of a person would he want to be? (Take away the fear of imperfection and failure, and let him focus on dreams.) How is he planning on giving back to the world--what makes him uniquely qualified to pursue excellence in some area?

When he's on his deathbed, what is the best version of his life story he'd be proud of?

If he wants to do his kickass duty, he's going to have to do his figurative pushups and become strong enough to do it and do it well. Growing always comes with growing pains, and he's going to need to struggle to become the caterpillar cum butterfly.

Then, later, if he wants, he can use his strengths and resources to enrich your hometown in some way, and give back to those loved ones.

Remind him that he *will* find his social niche there, and that you have confidence he's strong enough to get through the transition period and be a bigger man for it.

 

[skylights]

i understand your ENFPy feelings

obviously i'm not an SJ, but i figured i'd throw my two thoughts out there anyway...

1. maybe you could compromise to a relatively nearby city? maybe not something quite as big and happy and far away as you're hoping (but can we ever really meet that ideal?), something close enough that he can still see his family and friends on the weekends?

2. you might want to offer to orchestrate family / mutual friend meetings. that way he can see that you clearly want to stay in touch - you don't want to break him away from things that are very important to him.

anyway hopefully the SJs will have more betterer suggestions

good luck!!

 

[PeaceBaby]

I agree with focusing on the goals. What are his goals? Can he accomplish them in your hometown? If yes, this is likely why he can see himself be so comfortable there. If no, then other things are likely encouraging him to hold fast to the roots - indeed, family & friends.

So - you need to discuss - his goals, your goals, and your goals as a couple and try to come to some sense of direction. And, if you both indeed mutually agree to move away, have a plan ahead of time to visit home. Like, a few times a year at least. This plan will be a source of great comfort to him, and it will make him feel happy when he reflects on it.

Good luck.

 

[uberrogo]

Unless you can present some reason to move (IDK what will change his mind), he will probably eventually give in and resent you for it.

 

[Thalassa]

I forsee possible resentment on her side, too. Lots and lots of resentment.

 

[2XtremeENFP]

I am not mincing words because I think that you are much younger than me, and the ENFP drive to see new things, to crave change, all of that doesn't go away. If you give into him, you will feel trapped, and if you force him out with you, you may find yourself having a chat like this again after three or four years of marriage in the new city.

I'm in my mid-twenties. I do go through times where I need change, but it's mainly like personal changes..... but I've always kind of hoped that my desire to find change would subside down the road... guess I should realize it wont. My boyfriend is always throwing my liking for the grass is always greener... that's what he thinks when I tell him about moving, he said he thinks that I'll never be happy no matter where we are because I'll want something else...

I'd focus on TJ goals. If he *knew* that everything he tried, he'd succeed at, what kind of a person would he want to be? (Take away the fear of imperfection and failure, and let him focus on dreams.) How is he planning on giving back to the world--what makes him uniquely qualified to pursue excellence in some area?.

Very insightful. Great advice. I will do this. I've motivated him to positively affect his world around him, but problems are that he doesn't have much friends so it's hard for him.... I've asked him about his dreams/goals before. He gets down on himself for not having goals. I tend to avoid these talks because it ends up with him hating himself and being upset that he doesn't have goals. He gets all perfectionist and gets depressed. I think in our next talk, I will really dig into him. I know his goals are to get married and have kids. Plain and simple. He doesn't really know what he wants for a career, though he is looking into finance and such. Obvious ISTJ things. He thinks that he won't be successful, but I know if he tried he would be. I know that I have bigger goals and dreams for myself than he has for himself.

1. maybe you could compromise to a relatively nearby city? maybe not something quite as big and happy and far away as you're hoping (but can we ever really meet that ideal?), something close enough that he can still see his family and friends on the weekends?

2. you might want to offer to orchestrate family / mutual friend meetings. that way he can see that you clearly want to stay in touch - you don't want to break him away from things that are very important to him.
!

Love your #2 suggestion!! And as for #1, I've discussed being willing to move within a close radius of home--though, I really want warm weather eventually. Winter brings me down. He doesn't understand how the weather affects my mood...is this just an NF thing?

What are his goals? Can he accomplish them in your hometown? If yes, this is likely why he can see himself be so comfortable there. If no, then other things are likely encouraging him to hold fast to the roots - indeed, family & friends.

So - you need to discuss - his goals, your goals, and your goals as a couple and try to come to some sense of direction.

Thanks! Great advice as well. As stated before, I know for a fact his goal is to get married and start a family. I know that he sees it best to start a family around our families. He is such an ISTJ, but man, he is kind of Feely when it comes to family stuff.... lol So he figures that it's no biggie if we raise them in our home town since that's what we know, what we're used to, what we're familiar with...

I forsee possible resentment on her side, too. Lots and lots of resentment.

.... I do too .... I feel like I am being selfish because i really have passion for getting away.... Who is suppose to sacrifice? I feel like I already do so much in our relationship and I know he feels like he does too...

 

[Edgar]

Again, there's some things holding us back from getting engaged, basically the same ol' ENFP-ISTJ problems that this forum is flooded with. We are SO different, and we love each other SO MUCH, but should love be this difficult to keep a relationship together?

If you are SO different, then why do you love each other SO MUCH?

Would it be easier if we dating other people... blah blah blah.

Yes it would... blah blah blah.

 

[2XtremeENFP]

If you are SO different, then why do you love each other SO MUCH?

Yes it would... blah blah blah.

Wellll someone doesn't like ISTJ-ENFP relationships

Anyways, just because you are different from someone doesn't mean you can't love them.

we are very different, but for the most part, we really complete each other. I loosen him up, he keeps me responsible. I need him, and I believe he needs me. We both have similar lifestyle values in place such as faith, which is very important to me. There are many things about him that I have never met in another man, and don't think I ever will.

we've been together for over 6 years. He is not something I find easy to throw away. I just want to find the best way to make each of us happy in the ways that we differ.

 

[Edgar]

Wellll someone doesn't like ISTJ-ENFP relationships

I don't have a dog in this fight, I'm just making observations. And from what I observed, ENFP women seem to be drawn to ISTJ men (and vice versa) for whatever reason, yet more often than not, it ends in major disappointment to both parties.

Anyways, just because you are different from someone doesn't mean you can't love them.

we are very different, but for the most part, we really complete each other. I loosen him up, he keeps me responsible. I need him, and I believe he needs me. We both have similar lifestyle values in place such as faith, which is very important to me.

Practicing the same religion doesn't not mean you two have compatible personalities. You just happen to worship the same deity.

There are many things about him that I have never met in another man, and don't think I ever will.

we've been together for over 6 years. He is not something I find easy to throw away. I just want to find the best way to make each of us happy in the ways that we differ.

You should read up on the concept of "sunk costs"

 

[2XtremeENFP]

Practicing the same religion doesn't not mean you two have compatible personalities. You just happen to worship the same deity.

Well, depends on how you look at it. Him and I do not look at it like how you've described, which simply proves my point that we find it important to have a similar faith lifestyle. We may worship the same God, but we share in the values and life choices that come along with our dedication to God. The things we take serious in life, not many people do.

You should read up on the concept of "sunk costs"

I'll peep this later.

 

[Edgar]

Well, depends on how you look at it. Him and I do not look at it like how you've described, which simply proves my point that we find it important to have a similar faith lifestyle. We may worship the same God, but we share in the values and life choices that come along with our dedication to God. The things we take serious in life, not many people do.

I see what you mean. That might be a requirement for a working relationship for you, however, it is not sufficient in and of itself.

I'll peep this later.

Being an ENFP, you probably won't.... so I'll just sum it up for you - it basically means don't throw good money after bad. Or alternatively, the already wasted time is no reason to waste more time.


Anyway, like I said, I'm not here to sell anything. Just sharing opinions.

 

[2XtremeENFP]

i am not saying that I feel like we've wasted time, or that I am simply with him because we've been together for so long. We've had our tough times, and we've pushed through because of our love and desire to make the relationship work. I don't do things just to do it. My heart needs to be in it, and it is.

But I understand where you are coming from, and appreciate your insight.

and you're right, it may have taken a day or two for me to read into sunk costs, lol, I'm so N driven right now that I know i wouldn't buckle down and read it right away

 

[Serenes]

Love your #2 suggestion!! And as for #1, I've discussed being willing to move within a close radius of home--though, I really want warm weather eventually. Winter brings me down. He doesn't understand how the weather affects my mood...is this just an NF thing? t

I liked skylight's idea.. a compromise would be good if you can figure out some way. You both seem to feel Very strongly about why one wants to leave and other wants to stay... So if You can't even compromise on some things like the weather, imagine how he would feel if he had to totally move away with you and leave behind everything he cares about & feels comfortable with?

You're trying your hardest to convince him to move with you.. but remember, he's probably also thinking about trying to convince you to stay with him! Even though you both dearly love each other, it seems re-locating is a huge sacrifice for both sides. Sooo, even if one were to finally give into the other (not out of pure willingness).. one may be happy, and the other (if not happy) may breed resentment.. which can hurt the relationship later on in the future... or yeah cause this 'big talk' about relocating again.

I do think these re-locating kind of conversations are huge and reasonable enough to cause break-ups. Even though you love him a lot, do you think it's worth it to stay with him if he absolutely refuses to go with you? Are you willing to put your ideal views aside and just settle with him? If you think, re-locating will make you a much happier person despite possibly losing him... then yes I think it's worth the break up, because you might feel chained down and unhappy if you continue to stay somewhere that just doesn't fit you. But remember, you will always have yourself in the end no matter where you go or what you're doing.... whereas, he might not be in your life forever. It's really up to you, which is more important in the present/long run though.... the relationship(for him), or doing something that makes you happier(for yourself). Or you can do a compromise that gives in a little for him, but also get a little of what you want so it's more fair for both and you don't entirely lose either.

Random -> regarding the weather... yes, I don't like winter either! It is a bit depressing and so cold (makes me not want to do anything, and when it gets really bad you get stuck in the house! .. and have to worry about danger on the road etc.).. I rather have warm weather all the time, so much more simple and nice ^^. Even though I don't have any real plans yet, the thought is in my mind to someday move somewhere else warmer without such an erratic change of weather all the time... it really affects my mood too! (and yes, I think I'm okay with leaving all my family and friends behind if I do decide seriously one day to live somewhere else).

 

[Tiltyred]

What Marm and Edgar said.

 

[kyuuei]

I think you should focus on the job thing. If you haven't been able to find jobs in the area you're currently at, that may be an indicator that its time to move to a place you can find a job at. I wouldn't move until I landed a job somewhere else though. Getting a nice job that'd allow you two to get married may sweeten the idea of moving for him.. Then creating some firm plans in place for family get togethers could further lure him in. Or, you could find great jobs where ya'll are, and you have no reason to complain about moving. If you do stay, I'd suggest making time to travel to keep you feeling not-caged in. Traveling helps me a lot with that.

What worries me is the thought you mentioned about dating others. That was pretty WTF to me. Whenever I think things like that, the relationship is already dead. Not even dying.. dead. So..

 

[IZthe411]

If you have the $$ maybe spend a few days away at the new city/town that you have your eyes set on. Let him see how it is to live there; maybe he won't see it as such a bad decision.
What about the job outlook in the other cities? Can you show him the help wanted section of that area- maybe there's some work there that he really loves that he can't find in your hometown. Then he can get the $$$ he needs to wife you!

This is difficult. It sounds like he hasn't seen or done much outside of his immediate surroundings. I tell you, that's the achilles heel for an ISTJ.

 

[Craft]

Never supported opposites in general. If ever it doesn't work out, I hope you look at people who are more similar to you.

 

[Habba]

We both lived in the same town for most of us relationship (I recently moved an hour and a half away, but still see him a couple times a week). Our hometown is DEAD. It's a dying city. Poor economy, poor outlook, horrible crime, it really dampens me as an NF. It gets me down. Plus, the weather there really bums me out too.

It's weird that an ISTJ would like to live in a place like that, huh? Doesn't sound like a place where you'd like to have your family at.
Then again, ISTJs are probably the last ones to leave a sunken ship (not sinking, a sunken one. ).

I (would like to) feel that ENFP-ISTJ relationships can teach you a lot of about yourself. In a relationship like that you'll have to overcome your own weaknesses and learn to notice your good sides too. Since your mutual comfort zones are not quite so overlapping, one of you tends to be out of his/her comfort zone more often than not. Just the right amount of that, and you'll grow like a tree-that-grows-up-very-fast-and-becomes-very-strong. With "mirror-matching", your comfort zones might even completely overlap, and that easily leaves you into your own little comfort zones. It will be easier to begin with, but then again... you'll never grow up that strong.

Can't really help you out here much, since I don't know the details (such an ISTJ I am. )... just don't try to make it a decision between you and his family, that would surely tear him up.

I have a brother who moved rather far away and getting to where he lives is very troublesome, so I don't see him so often. I think I resent him moving away that far, so far away from everyone he knows... but he says he likes it there. I have been living all my life within on city area, so I kinda can feel for the ISTJ. I couldn't imagine myself moving away from "home" to completely new area where I would know no one or anything. We have such a huge storage of information about our surroundings that forcing us to move away from our location would render all that information useless and leave us "empty pocketed".

But I think it's a fear of the unknown that realy keeps me here, not the love of familiarity. So I'd advice your ISTJ to move with you some place else. You can always come back if it's horrible?

And you should also consider if he's correct about you seeing the grass greener elsewhere. It's one thing to hate your current city, than it's to hate the lack of change. Maybe you just need to list down logical reasons what makes you unhappy in your current city, and have some sort of proof that things would be different elsewhere. You know, ISTJs are such a fighters that they'd rather make poor things work than replace them with something better...