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  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I did have some of the same reaction that Alcearos did, with the language that was used to describe your friend. It came across as sort of condescending and not really understanding where she's at, who she is, or what strategies SHE can employ. (I have no doubt YOU could handle this stalker, because your personality is different, but she's highly vulnerable because of her past and her personality.)

    I didn't think the man broke the door, I was perceiving he just forced his way in. Really, what's a woman to do at that point except for macing him or screaming or making a HUGE deal... which would embarrass her, possibly provoke him, and draw lots of attention she doesn't want? For an ISFJ, such things would just highly embarrassing.

    You have to remember, if you look at the three anxiety-reducing strategy, she's a "move towards" person. She deals with anxiety and conflict by moving TOWARDS the person, trying to console, ingratiate, and get on their good side. Someone who Moved Against or Moved Away would do better with stalkers... but her natural skill and instinct is to negotiate with people so that everyone is happy and they are no longer displeased with her. Where she is weak is that she's not willing to live with anxiety that she sometimes must suffer is she is to protect herself.

    It might gall you that she is not acting as independently as you would like, but I think she's going to need more support than you'd expect. And to be taken care of, to some degree. Guys like you to get involved and get rid of this guy. Even if she should be developing more independence, she can't do enough of it to save her from this creep.

    I would probably try to keep convincing her that this guy is NOT part of her social circle, she has no commitments or obligations to him, he is crossing her boundaries, and thus she needs to see him as an interloper and someone she can truly "lock out" rather than trying to engage, placate, salve, or maintain a relationship with. Even that it's better for her to feel harsh, cruel, evil, or mean than to keep allowing him to violate her boundaries. She might need to support to just let her know she's not any of those things for cutting him out.

    I don't know, obviously you know her so much better so perhaps my advice is off a great deal. But I would not hesitate to step in, in this situation, and help her "take care of this problem." Some people just need that level of support, even if we would not.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I did have some of the same reaction that Alcearos did, with the language that was used to describe your friend. It came across as sort of condescending and not really understanding where she's at, who she is, or what strategies SHE can employ.
    It was more of a blog writing style, I was lazy to edit it for general topic areas. Done editing now, see OP . Thank you for pointing it out. It was bad from me to express such harsh views in here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I didn't think the man broke the door, I was perceiving he just forced his way in. Really, what's a woman to do at that point except for macing him or screaming or making a HUGE deal... which would embarrass her, possibly provoke him, and draw lots of attention she doesn't want? For an ISFJ, such things would just highly embarrassing.
    Yeah it's true, little can be done, but she managed to do it. I think she handled it superbly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    You have to remember, if you look at the three anxiety-reducing strategy, she's a "move towards" person. She deals with anxiety and conflict by moving TOWARDS the person, trying to console, ingratiate, and get on their good side. Someone who Moved Against or Moved Away would do better with stalkers... but her natural skill and instinct is to negotiate with people so that everyone is happy and they are no longer displeased with her. Where she is weak is that she's not willing to live with anxiety that she sometimes must suffer is she is to protect herself.
    This is all new to me, tho I suspected something of the kind. Yes, this kind of mutual solution seeking it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It might gall you that she is not acting as independently as you would like, but I think she's going to need more support than you'd expect. And to be taken care of, to some degree. Guys like you to get involved and get rid of this guy. Even if she should be developing more independence, she can't do enough of it to save her from this creep.
    Yeah I didn't want to turn this whole thing to complaining about HER. The narrative was from my blog, where I first had a quick gut reaction to this and I was later sorry, because I heard her having cried because of my perceived rudeness. Only then did I begin to really empathize with her situation, and I apologized her for dismissing her situation as something trivially solvable. Now I do want to help her without making her feel guilt.

    If he harasses her when I'm visiting her, I'll do my best to get the message clear for him. I'll discuss with her to plan what would work best. Other than that, I'll support her emotionally in this issue, and arrange a pocket recorder for her to help her get the evidence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I would probably try to keep convincing her that this guy is NOT part of her social circle, she has no commitments or obligations to him, he is crossing her boundaries, and thus she needs to see him as an interloper and someone she can truly "lock out" rather than trying to engage, placate, salve, or maintain a relationship with. Even that it's better for her to feel harsh, cruel, evil, or mean than to keep allowing him to violate her boundaries. She might need to support to just let her know she's not any of those things for cutting him out.
    This is a helpful perspective. I'll discuss this with her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I don't know, obviously you know her so much better so perhaps my advice is off a great deal. But I would not hesitate to step in, in this situation, and help her "take care of this problem." Some people just need that level of support, even if we would not.
    It ain't off, it hits the spot

    Thank you

  3. #13
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Become her boyfriend, that's the solution. You can kick the ass of the people that stalk her then, and so get a good workout too, isn't that sweet.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  4. #14
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    There will be no roleplaying to knight-saving-the-princess -scenarios in here No tough guy attitude either. I'm interested of other women and she's accepted it; my relationship to her is that of a friend and it'll stay that way.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #15
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    I really don't care for the accusations Alcearos and Jennifer have leveled at Santtu. His reaction may have been a bit condescending, but I think the way you two reacted to it shows that you weren't making much of an effort to understand where he was coming from either.

    It was clear to me that he was frustrated because he cared what happened to her and wanted her to be out of the situation, not just because he thought she was "stupid" or something for not being able to get out. I agree that he didn't express it in the best way possible, probably because his mind was meandering, thinking of all the options that seemed simple enough but wouldn't work, and thus getting frustrated.

    The general tone of the post was that he thought it was a bad situation for her, and he wanted to know what should be done, because he wasn't sure how to work within her situation, essentially admitting that he was having trouble understanding just how this was for her, and thus how/whether he should help her. Instead of responding to that, you zeroed in on one interpretation of one aspect of what he wrote and made an accusation against him out of it.

    One more little thing: I think he mentioned the definition of "forced entry" to point out frustration with the narrowness of what the police would accept, and not to imply that she was overreacting to him shoving his way inside as some of you seem to have interpreted that remark.

    With that said, I understand how it could be interpreted that way (even though I didn't interpret it that way), but I don't think it merited the severity of your reactions/condemnations to it. I think it should have been pointed out to him, certainly, but not emphasized to the degree it was. I'm also willing to admit that with this post, I may be guilty of doing to you (to some extent) the same thing I think you did to Santtu. I hope not, but I'm aware that I might be.

  6. #16
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Thanks Athenian, I indeed care for her, but I accept Alcearos' and Jennifer's view as well. Everyone's entitled to their own thoughts, even if rude - but I displayed lack of understanding by not editing them into a more acceptable form. I think we've established that condescending attitude and blaming is not my only feeling in here.

    The background for my frustration with her is simple: I was annoyed that when I came back from the kitchen in my dinner party, she had brought down the mood and wouldn't stop talking about her problems. I saw that my friends weren't enjoying the monologue.

    We always knew what kind of forced entry it was and what's required as evidence, but I was disappointed of conveying an inexact message - a more dramatic one - to my audience. I will stay clear from drama if at all possible.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #17
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    The best way of getting evidence for police would be taking a video of this stalker's behavior. She might need help in getting some video shootage of the situation and I think a friend could help her in that.

  8. #18
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    Ask her to call the police! . Because he's too much!

  9. #19
    Member Electric's Avatar
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    I can relate well to this thread,

    I have a good ISFJ friend and she always get into problems that she can never solve. Especially in her job where her partners slack off on the task, she does all the work by herself...She thinks that it's worth it since it will help her keep her job as she is a role model worker. IMO This is really stupid as it causes more suffering. This had been going on for five years and her health was declining because of it. Since her supervisor currently was relocated, she had a better one that made everyone work. I have always been supportive of her, but sometimes it's meaningless when she doesn't listens to your advice and wants your support only.

    ISFJ IMO aren't good in external affairs. The thing that exacerbates the situation even more is that they don't look hard enough to solve their affairs. People can easily take advantage of their will to work hard. They are overoptimistic with strangers.

  10. #20
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post

    Any advice?
    Pepper spray? That's risky though. She would only be justified in using it if she felt she was in real physical danger otherwise he could press charges against her. And it may or may not be illegal in your state anyway.

    Better idea would be to get her to move.

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