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  1. #1
    Member Yeonhee's Avatar
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    Default estj's and intp's

    Greetings from a female INTP.

    Is it common for ESTJ's to think INTP's are incompetent and in need of some healthy dose of "reality"?

    I've been with my boyfriend for over a year now (varies between N/S) and our greatest contention is the J/P and N/S(surprise?). It's insufferable for me and I imagine it's equally irritating for him. Let me further clarify that we get along fine in every other area but these. I accept his lack of interest for the abstract, however, this also precludes him from fully comprehending my being, which in turn, makes his judgment of me much more harsh and dare I say, irrelevant and meaningless. He wants me to "listen to him and do as he says" I'm at a loss when it comes to this. I will not sacrifice my integrity and independence. Has any ESTJ's here been in a relationship with a INTP?

  2. #2
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    The conflict I have had with extroverted thinkers is that they are interested in action and results. The two I'm close to seldom want to hear about what I'm thinking, they want to hear about what I'm doing or better yet, what I've managed to accomplish. They admire my intelligence but get frustrated about the energy I put into thinking versus doing. It doesn't make sense to them at all so I'm kind of limited about what I can talk to them about. Both of them are prone to interrupting my chain of spoken thought and say, "Okay, I understand what you're saying but what are you going to DO about it?" I can understand your frustration--it's almost like they only see a fraction of you because you cannot span that gap. For me, it came down to a giving a logical and brief explanation on my decisions and maintaining a firm stance on it. Most will say (especially if they care about you) it's not THE WAY but if it works and gets results then it's okay.

    On them understanding the deeper aspects of you...hmm, I don't have much advice there. Hopefully you will hear more chime in about this.

  3. #3
    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeonhee View Post
    Greetings from a female INTP.

    Is it common for ESTJ's to think INTP's are incompetent and in need of some healthy dose of "reality"?

    I've been with my boyfriend for over a year now (varies between N/S) and our greatest contention is the J/P and N/S(surprise?). It's insufferable for me and I imagine it's equally irritating for him. Let me further clarify that we get along fine in every other area but these. I accept his lack of interest for the abstract, however, this also precludes him from fully comprehending my being, which in turn, makes his judgment of me much more harsh and dare I say, irrelevant and meaningless. He wants me to "listen to him and do as he says" I'm at a loss when it comes to this. I will not sacrifice my integrity and independence. Has any ESTJ's here been in a relationship with a INTP?
    I'm a Te-dom, and never would I tell someone to "listen to me and do as I say". The guy has control issues that you probably don't need to deal with.

    A true and healthy Te might still be blunt and expect competence, we operate rationally and WANT you to KEEP your integrity and independence. We have no time to play the Mom or Dad role.

    We just expect things to get done and to get done right - I don't care HOW you do it, personally. But if you don't perform, we just don't stick around. Simple.
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  4. #4
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    I don't get it...

    I think the most interesting type to me are NTPs, especially ENTPs, since Ne is their dominant, and I love their outlook on things, as opposed to me, whose first stop is to look at things 'the way they are', THEN look at it the 'ways it could be'. I dunno, I think it depends on the SJ, really. If they aren't comfortable with possibilities and alternatives, I imagine it can be hell, especially since they are leading with Te.

    I think since STJs and NTPs share Si and Ne, it would be a great combinaton.

    Do you/can you appreciate his approach?

  5. #5
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeonhee View Post
    Greetings from a female INTP.

    Is it common for ESTJ's to think INTP's are incompetent and in need of some healthy dose of "reality"?
    I haven't been in a relationship with an INTP, but I'm friends with a bunch of them and my dad is one. My rules with INTPs are the same as with everyone else regardless of type:
    1. I will ONLY consider them to be incompetent if it doesn't look like they can get the job done, and they prove this on multiple occasions. (For example: "You've tried to fix the TV remote like five times and it hasn't worked. Can we look at the instruction manual now???")
    2. If their opinion is the polar opposite of mine, I want to know the factual basis behind it. I want to hear statistics, or see credible sources. I'm an extreme skeptic, but I am NOT impossible to convince.

    The only time I've really had communication trouble with INTPs (outside of lack of understanding of humor, or emotional moments) has been when we've debated, and the INTP used that as kind of a thought experiment - i.e. throwing out all the information on the subject without actually making a judgment on it - and I had no idea what he was doing. I would keep going "Oh I know what you're talking about - wait now I don't - wait, why do you keep contradicting yourself???" But if I had known what he was doing beforehand, there wouldn't have been conflict.

    I dunno. I like 'em. Maybe it depends on the person.
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  6. #6
    Member Yeonhee's Avatar
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    Okay, I'm intrigued and slightly confused at the present moment.

    I've taken a socionics test and I tested as INTJ with a close ENTJ and INTP following. He tested as ISFJ following two subdominant possibilities (ENFJ/ESFJ).

    What I've noticed from his control issues or just conflicts in general, he can be quite emotionally manipulative about it. If I were to express some sort of concern, he can quickly become emotional/sensitive and take it personally. This boggles my mind. Is there a difference in NT Jdom and ST jdom? Do we "J" in different ways? For me, I just do not care much about planning EVERY SINGLE PRACTICAL DETAIL. I don't prefer having an absence of planning, usually just like having an "overall" plan.

    My SO likes practical results; I'm not so much interested in practical results as much as knowing and then creating a plan. Any help or questions would be appreciated.

  7. #7
    Member Yeonhee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I haven't been in a relationship with an INTP, but I'm friends with a bunch of them and my dad is one. My rules with INTPs are the same as with everyone else regardless of type:
    1. I will ONLY consider them to be incompetent if it doesn't look like they can get the job done, and they prove this on multiple occasions. (For example: "You've tried to fix the TV remote like five times and it hasn't worked. Can we look at the instruction manual now???")
    2. If their opinion is the polar opposite of mine, I want to know the factual basis behind it. I want to hear statistics, or see credible sources. I'm an extreme skeptic, but I am NOT impossible to convince.

    The only time I've really had communication trouble with INTPs (outside of lack of understanding of humor, or emotional moments) has been when we've debated, and the INTP used that as kind of a thought experiment - i.e. throwing out all the information on the subject without actually making a judgment on it - and I had no idea what he was doing. I would keep going "Oh I know what you're talking about - wait now I don't - wait, why do you keep contradicting yourself???" But if I had known what he was doing beforehand, there wouldn't have been conflict.

    I dunno. I like 'em. Maybe it depends on the person.
    I tend to do that. I speculate and theorize during a debate, which includes contributing a lot of information that I perceive as pertinent to comprehending the entire issue, and this can leave him without much commentary, rarely any feedback other than "That's interesting." or "I agree." It's slightly frustrating as I appreciate debate.

    I lol'd at 1. To INTP's time is not an issue, they want to test themselves. This process of "figuring things out on their own" is quite important to any NT, I imagine.

  8. #8
    Member Yeonhee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    I don't get it...

    I think the most interesting type to me are NTPs, especially ENTPs, since Ne is their dominant, and I love their outlook on things, as opposed to me, whose first stop is to look at things 'the way they are', THEN look at it the 'ways it could be'. I dunno, I think it depends on the SJ, really. If they aren't comfortable with possibilities and alternatives, I imagine it can be hell, especially since they are leading with Te.

    I think since STJs and NTPs share Si and Ne, it would be a great combinaton.

    Do you/can you appreciate his approach?
    I only have one ISTJ friend and he's pretty awesome. We can talk about complex issues together and it's never really been a problem. However, I can't say for relationships as that's an entirely different realm of being. Out of all the SJ's, I have a hard time dealing with ESFJ's so far (my father.)

    Out of curiosity, what type are you, IZ?

  9. #9
    Member Yeonhee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    The conflict I have had with extroverted thinkers is that they are interested in action and results. The two I'm close to seldom want to hear about what I'm thinking, they want to hear about what I'm doing or better yet, what I've managed to accomplish. They admire my intelligence but get frustrated about the energy I put into thinking versus doing. It doesn't make sense to them at all so I'm kind of limited about what I can talk to them about. Both of them are prone to interrupting my chain of spoken thought and say, "Okay, I understand what you're saying but what are you going to DO about it?" I can understand your frustration--it's almost like they only see a fraction of you because you cannot span that gap. For me, it came down to a giving a logical and brief explanation on my decisions and maintaining a firm stance on it. Most will say (especially if they care about you) it's not THE WAY but if it works and gets results then it's okay.

    On them understanding the deeper aspects of you...hmm, I don't have much advice there. Hopefully you will hear more chime in about this.
    Nailed it. I don't have this problem with NTJ's, but only with STJ/SFJ's. I sometimes feel as though my SO does not know who I am, just bases his judgment on what results I produce.

  10. #10
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeonhee View Post
    Okay, I'm intrigued and slightly confused at the present moment.

    I've taken a socionics test and I tested as INTJ with a close ENTJ and INTP following. He tested as ISFJ following two subdominant possibilities (ENFJ/ESFJ).

    What I've noticed from his control issues or just conflicts in general, he can be quite emotionally manipulative about it. If I were to express some sort of concern, he can quickly become emotional/sensitive and take it personally. This boggles my mind. Is there a difference in NT Jdom and ST jdom? Do we "J" in different ways? For me, I just do not care much about planning EVERY SINGLE PRACTICAL DETAIL. I don't prefer having an absence of planning, usually just like having an "overall" plan.

    My SO likes practical results; I'm not so much interested in practical results as much as knowing and then creating a plan. Any help or questions would be appreciated.
    I believe socionics INTP = INTJ.

    If he's an SJ with F-dom...leave now. Run while you still have the strength! I'm just kidding.

    If he really is a XSFJ, then you are going to run into issues like this quite frequently. I've never met any SJ with a T-dom that were emotionally manipulative...they just don't do that sort of thing. They are way too straightforward for that kind of business and it wouldn't even occur to them.

    Here are some things that can snag: The love of debate may taken as a personal attack. Wanting someone to explain their reasoning or views on something may be construed as interrogation. If you are lucky, you can explain that this is just the way your mind operates and it is not personal--this is simply the way you reach an understanding of something AND that understanding something is vital to you. Hopefully, he will understand and you can reach a compromise without you getting frustrated and him taking things personally.

    Edit: Yes, this does help but it seems to be more useful for XSTJ. Works well with ENTJs, too. My ex is an ESFJ and it often seemed like he had an emotional attachment to doing things in a particular way and would take my attempts at innovation or not doing it 'his way' very personally. I had to explain that it came naturally to me and that I enjoyed it.

    It is a workable relationship...any type can be with any other type but you're going to have be aware of where the potential pitfalls are and the both of you willing to compromise. The emotional maturity of you both will play a large part of this.

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