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  1. #31
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I ask because that is SUCH an SJ stereotype, and I was curious to see whether the stereotype is valid or not. I know from my personal experience that I am NOT viewed as closed-minded, and no one has ever nagged at me for being closed-minded, AND, for that matter, closed-minded people can really irritate me.... but I don't want to judge all SJs based on my own experience.

    I don't mean for this to be a hate thread, or a <3 thread, for that matter... I'm simply curious. It's an opportunity to either enforce or break a stereotype, and why pass that opportunity up?

    So what are your thoughts, fellow Guardians?
    I have only good memories of ESTJs. Some of the best people, really.
    Closed-minded? Come on.
    The most closed-minded people are the INTPs. I am ashamed to admit it. Read INTPc.

    An ESTJ picked me from street, in Vienna, 1968. I was homeless.
    One day he said: You are closed-minded. I want you to be open.

    I came by. Lessons are hard learned.

  2. #32
    This is a test. Sil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I ask because that is SUCH an SJ stereotype, and I was curious to see whether the stereotype is valid or not. I know from my personal experience that I am NOT viewed as closed-minded, and no one has ever nagged at me for being closed-minded, AND, for that matter, closed-minded people can really irritate me.... but I don't want to judge all SJs based on my own experience.

    I don't mean for this to be a hate thread, or a <3 thread, for that matter... I'm simply curious. It's an opportunity to either enforce or break a stereotype, and why pass that opportunity up?

    So what are your thoughts, fellow Guardians?
    I'm specifically known for not being close-minded. As a result, I'm usually the first person my friends come to when they have something sensitive they want to discuss.

    However, this wasn't an inborn trait. It had to be learned, through lots and lots of fucking hard work and many failed runs.

    There are still areas where I am definitely not the most open-minded person. But being highly self-aware of this and knowing how to manage it around others is what gives me a lot of my power.
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  3. #33
    Sweet Summer Dik Dik yama's Avatar
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    Yes, but only family members who are upset that I don't conform to their conservative ideologies. They see my disagreement with them as being close-minded. Probably because they dont see the thought process that happens under the surface before I come to my conclusions.
    MBTI: ESFJ
    Enneagram: 6w7 9w1 2w3 so/sx
    Temperament: Phlegmatic | Sanguine
    Astrology: Leo Sun | Aries Moon | Leo Rising
    Johari | Nohari

    not a type description

  4. #34
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    I shall speak on behalf of some SJ's I know. My two ISxJ parents, my ESTJ boss, and my ESTJ cousin. I think they are all pretty open-minded, to be honest. However they all come across as pretty opinionated and I would say very *Solid* in what they think and believe in. They're definitely open to new info/ perspectives, though. Perhaps it's the solidity that makes some people think they are close-minded?
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints
    https://docs.google.com/uc?export=do...Gd5N3NZZE52QjQ
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  5. #35
    This is a test. Sil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I shall speak on behalf of some SJ's I know. My two ISxJ parents, my ESTJ boss, and my ESTJ cousin. I think they are all pretty open-minded, to be honest. However they all come across as pretty opinionated and I would say very *Solid* in what they think and believe in. They're definitely open to new info/ perspectives, though. Perhaps it's the solidity that makes some people think they are close-minded?
    I think you've hit upon where the perceived close-mindedness in SJ types comes from; it's not that they're not open to new ideas, but that they have strong, solid opinions they aren't afraid to back down from.
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  6. #36
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I shall speak on behalf of some SJ's I know. My two ISxJ parents, my ESTJ boss, and my ESTJ cousin. I think they are all pretty open-minded, to be honest. However they all come across as pretty opinionated and I would say very *Solid* in what they think and believe in. They're definitely open to new info/ perspectives, though. Perhaps it's the solidity that makes some people think they are close-minded?
    Yes that may be why. I'm not close minded. I do have opinions on things that work and things that don't but new ideas and concepts - bring them on. Even if I had a strongly held belief, I would certainly change it if evidence supported a change.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.
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  7. #37
    Dream without Hesitation Dreamer's Avatar
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    My two best friends are both ISFJs and I wouldn't call them close-minded by a long shot. Comfortable and set in their ways, ya, more so that ends up being the case. So with our relationship, it usually ends up being where I open them up to new ideas and experiences, but you can be sure, that they are very willing to branch out and go on adventures with me I find that my friends can sometimes just use that little nudge to try new things. Now, speaking closed-minded with regards to values and beliefs, eh it's a toss up. They tend to require more facts and evidence before convincing them of an alternate perspective than say, it does for me.

    But no, I don't feel SJs are closed-minded
    The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams
    -Eleanor Roosevelt

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I ask because that is SUCH an SJ stereotype, and I was curious to see whether the stereotype is valid or not. I know from my personal experience that I am NOT viewed as closed-minded, and no one has ever nagged at me for being closed-minded, AND, for that matter, closed-minded people can really irritate me.... but I don't want to judge all SJs based on my own experience.

    I don't mean for this to be a hate thread, or a <3 thread, for that matter... I'm simply curious. It's an opportunity to either enforce or break a stereotype, and why pass that opportunity up?

    So what are your thoughts, fellow Guardians?
    Only when I have formed an opinion, will people say that, and that is only when they want to change my mind.
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  9. #39
    Senior Member LavenderSoda's Avatar
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    I hear this mostly from people who would define themselves as unconventional. It isn't that sort of natural unconventionality; but that sort of flamboyant ''I'm seeking for attention and validation'' type. I find that annoying because they are purposely trying to disrupt the atmosphere of others. I also find that misleading. The way it is misleading is that when people whom are naturally unconventional tend to denounce that part of themselves because those flamboyant ''transgenders'' or flamboyant humans decided to adopt the word as their own. I am not traditional: but in the Myers Briggs world you either are a traditional/close minded doormat or a free-spirited transgender. I think the Myers Briggs should be tweaked a little informational wise. I see where she was going there and I have applied this theory to reality and it has worked; but I feel like there has been some information that hasn't been talked about. I am often told that I am closed-minded because I don't believe in what this generation believes. I believe in how things used to be and I feel like they need to set some laws in place so that way nobody gets hurt.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Smilephantomhive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LavenderSoda View Post
    I hear this mostly from people who would define themselves as unconventional. It isn't that sort of natural unconventionality; but that sort of flamboyant ''I'm seeking for attention and validation'' type. I find that annoying because they are purposely trying to disrupt the atmosphere of others. I also find that misleading. The way it is misleading is that when people whom are naturally unconventional tend to denounce that part of themselves because those flamboyant ''transgenders'' or flamboyant humans decided to adopt the word as their own. I am not traditional: but in the Myers Briggs world you either are a traditional/close minded doormat or a free-spirited transgender. I think the Myers Briggs should be tweaked a little informational wise. I see where she was going there and I have applied this theory to reality and it has worked; but I feel like there has been some information that hasn't been talked about. I am often told that I am closed-minded because I don't believe in what this generation believes. I believe in how things used to be and I feel like they need to set some laws in place so that way nobody gets hurt.
    I hopersonally you know tat transgenders are not trying to be cute and unconventional. It is a real problem to not fit the gender you were assigned to.

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