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  1. #11
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    One problem with differentiating INTJ and ISTJ is that a lot of people conflate Si and Te. When the "outside-the-box" aspect is overemphasized in INTJ, it can cause confusion. INTJs are not INTPs. Te needs a box to work from to make judgments. Ni provides this box just as well as Si does. The only difference is that the Ni box is more malleable. It shifts things around more. I've heard people say that INTJ and INFJ are most like each other, but I think INTJ really have more in common with ISTJ, and the same goes for INFJ and ISFJ.
    Agree with you there; though lot of people also will argue that a Si's user is rigid in thought. Not necessarily. Based on background and experience, a Si user can have many perspectives on the issue and be just as adaptable.

  2. #12
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Sounds kind of like my ISTJ friend who is in a serious relationship and they are planning on getting married next year. He has struck out in love before - it hasn't gone well for him. So, he was telling me that he has some smaller issues (not dealbreakers, but major annoyances), with the girl and I asked if he had brought those things up to her and talked about them. He saidl, "No. I'd rather play it cool now, keep things smooth, go ahead and get married, and then once we're married (or "locked-in"), then it will be more appropriate for me to stand up to her on these issues.

    It's clear to me that he's afraid that it will go like it did the last few times if he speaks up. And he's "working backwards", as you mention. He wants to get married first, then work out the issues. As opposed to putting everything out on the table before the big day. It seems to foreign to me to do it this way. Doing it this way, I would get to the wedding day and then be thinking, "Oh man, I never brought up those issues, now I've got those to worry about."
    Funny, I had a similar outlook, but my SiTe tells me in the future to speak up as soon as I see a problem. I did that with one of my girls. Things frustrated me but I didn't say anything because for one, I wasn't sure what it was, and if I brought up a problem that I wasn't sure about, I'd do more damage. So my approach was to try to figure it out in my mind until I was sure what it was.

    So for the future, I'm going to speak up. If it's a dealbreaker then she's not worth it in the first place.

  3. #13
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    You are probably an ISTJ then, given that:

    1) Many tests over diagnose people as NPs/NJs.
    2) ISTJs are more common than INTJs anyway.

    However, to answer your question, the two types can be quite similar. ISTJs lead with Si, of course, which is a function that concerns itself with certainty of knowledge. ISJs feel a need to be sure that the information they use in discion making is as acurate as possible. If a given idea/fact is only speculative, they tend to remain suspicious of it until more evidence has been found. Given that facts are usually easier to verify than ideas or principal, ISTJs tend to pick up a lot of factual knowledge, but a well proven idea is just as valuable to them.

    ISTJs will often role such information around in their heads, making sure that they have everything straight before they do something. They will mentaly go over a to-do list or review what has happened to them to find out what caused them to fail/succeed for future referance. Primary Si has a strong feature of planning a head and ISJs usually like to control all available factures to assure success and (perhaps just as importantly) avoid failure. This will often make them rather cautious.

    It is also this need for certainty that makes ISJs seem rather backward looking, because it is in the past that certainty lies, not in the future, which is always a bit hazzy. Speculations on what is to come often have fuzzy character to them, which makes them unappealing. ISJs usually prefer to look at past events and extrapolate forward, choising the path most likely to bring success and minimise the hazards.

    INTJS use Ni, which is in many ways the brother of Si. However, while Si concerns itself with the concrete ideas of what works and what is known, Ni leans towards less well defined principals. I said Si is concerned with certainty of knowledge... Ni is concerned with certainty of understanding. INJs feel the need to make sure they understand the principals of how things work, even if the details are a bit unclear.

    INJs will often roll ideas around in their heads to make sure they understand them back-to-front and up-side-down, trying to pick out all possible causes and ramifications. It is this that gives INJs their reputation for looking at things from unusual angles or finding new perspectives - it's just a result of how much time they spend thinking about them.

    INJs like to know what might happen before they do something, but unlike the ISJs they aren't motivated buy a need to be sure about things. Thus, they are far more likely to pick out one of them many possibilities they've found and decide that they like that one best, then proceed to try and make it happen. Consequently, INJs are more likely to pursue goals that seem unlikely or strange to other people.
    You could also clearly see from this the temperamental difference. Both are introverted, directive and structure focused, but Ni leads to more pragmatic behavior (quicker to act), while Si with its need for surety will be slower, and this will come out as what is called "cooperative" (as in cooperating with a familiar institution, which is a concrete structure).
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    Agree with you there; though lot of people also will argue that a Si's user is rigid in thought. Not necessarily. Based on background and experience, a Si user can have many perspectives on the issue and be just as adaptable.
    Speaking for myself, I read very widely and tend to bring up off-beat ideas and things a lot of other people don't think of. However, even so, I feel like I am only speaking of things that I have "already encountered" in some way in the past. I think this is a function of my Si... In this case, I feel that I am not as rigid only because I have been exposed to more perspectives, not because I am coming up with my own independent perspectives.

    What do you think?

  5. #15
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lao View Post
    Speaking for myself, I read very widely and tend to bring up off-beat ideas and things a lot of other people don't think of. However, even so, I feel like I am only speaking of things that I have "already encountered" in some way in the past. I think this is a function of my Si... In this case, I feel that I am not as rigid only because I have been exposed to more perspectives, not because I am coming up with my own independent perspectives.

    What do you think?
    I think you are on point, Lao.

    Take my work, for instance. I was a public accountant and now I work for one company. So my perspective on matters related to accounting and operations for the industry is more broad than the many who have worked for this company their whole career, so their view is limited. So my opinions or thoughts may come across as different or off the beaten path because it's not something that they've seen/experienced.

    If anything, my first employer taught me to be very open to different ways to do things, so I never take the status quo as the only way to do things, even if it's 1000 years old. It's okay to do things differently, so all ideas should be considered.

    Based on my understanding, that an INTJ also needs a data source to put things together, so if their perspective is shallow, it limits the effectiveness of their intuition in that situation.

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