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  1. #1
    Junior Member NetJunkie2's Avatar
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    Question ISTj Ultimatum from ENFP-(pref. if you are famaliar with us)

    As simple as an ENFP can make it. Please try to oversee the errors. ISTJ's

    My bf and I have been on a rough patch from the beginning, 3 years now.
    *(Insight- He would never agree to that statement, because he was never unhappy; it was always I with the issues-so to speak)

    Always knowing that I have been the more intuitive one, I finally came to the conclusion that my bf, type ISTJ, and I, Enfp, simply do not understand eachother. Yes, a simple conclusion I have always known. Love, 'Natural' Self Consciousness, and criticism, had me thinking it was always because I was unstable emotionally and too analytical. Again Simply Stating. I realized that he wasn't capable of thinking the way I do, seeing things from my perspective, or how I always took it to the "big picture." He is very situational; black and white.

    After Breaking Up-Current Situation
    He is not willing to "just let go." He feels that it can be worked out, and he admits that he is reserved emotionally. He thinks it is a easy as: "we both want the same things; so let us compromise."


    The ENFP that I am still has hope. I love him because he is, in fact, a wonderful person and definitely everything I'm not. I admire that about him. After, researching I realize that is my 'inner' connection with him, that we are opposites. You all have helped me a great deal in understanding him and trying to work around our differences. Example: Me, not take everything so literal. He truly doesn't mean it to be degrading.. it's who he is. (Don't think he is disrespectful, I know he can carry that trait, but he isn't that way with me, fyi.) Just the person I am takes VERY small actions and words 'to heart'.

    I've learned MUCH MORE about who WE are in general.

    At the same time, I still need/want him to at least understand who I am, ENFP. With being polar opposites it cannot be one without the other. Especially for as sensitive as I am.

    So to my point:


    I am trying to get him to understand his self and me on a much 'deeper' level. Unfortunately, giving in and dealing with it does not last for an ENFP, believe me, I know. We eventually remain unhappy and get worse. Then things will completely break apart the 'unhealthy' way.. all do to non communication and lack of empathy.

    Now I know, It's hard to get an ISTj to be coherently intrigued by Cognitive functions. I did read through a few forums that stated: If some life changing event causes him to re-think that psychology is important, he may look into it. Or if someone of higher, respectable authority suggests for him to research the theory, he may do it.
    I understand that if an ISTj finds MBTI useless than he will not see the need to indulge. Therefore, my solution was simple:

    Another forum suggested to establish rules and goals with an ISTj.

    My first rule, in order for us to even discuss working things out, he needed to research and understand who we are based on the Cognitive Theory Level.
    I also followed up with "Even though you may not agree with your entire category the 'ENFP' is in FACT me. I need him to understand me a little bit more for us to move on. I am terrible at explaining myself in ways that he would understand, and I feel like if he reads Q&A, Statistics, Overviews, etc.. that he may begin to see what I am made of, and he may understand that NEITHER of us can change but only adapt and utilize each other's strengths and weaknesses.

    I know not overwhelm him with his choices and let him decide what and when they are. I will not suffocate, and quite frankly, this is my last hope. I am to a cynical point in this relationship and will not force him to do anything. He wanted to make it work, so after much talk and research this is what it is.

    Do any of you think that this could work? Of course, based off his willingness. But if he is willing, will it work? Will he be able to understand me more?

    ISTj's- are you able to understand NF's more, if pyschology is your thing, and you have researched it? Using the tools and references from the theory?

    Thank You For ANY INPUT. It WOULD DEFINITELY HELP TO GET THE OPINION OF THOSE WHO UNDERSTAND ALL TYPES.

  2. #2
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    I don't understand all types but spent many, many years with an ISTJ. He was and still is a good man. Solid, undeviating and consistent. But those same characteristics led to a divergence with our lives, since the life he wanted wasn't the life I eventually wanted. It wasn't enough for me.

    If you're looking for someone who can understand an Ne-Fi dom-aux, I'm not certain you're looking in the right place or maybe your expectations are too high for him. Consider the order of cognitive functions for an ISTJ of Si>Te>Fi>Ne. His two weakest functions are your strongest functions. Ne is his achilles heel, followed closely by Fi. Can you lead with Si-Te? Would it be reasonable to expect you to do so?

  3. #3
    Junior Member NetJunkie2's Avatar
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    Understandable. But we are somehow connected. And I truly think it is because we admire eachother's strength's because they are our weaknesses. I don't ask him to think like me, nor does he ask me to think like him. I just want our actions (in his point of view) to be more methodical to the types of people we are. I know things won't be perfect, that's a given, but why are we so drawn to eachother? I know I am rationalizing, but if there is a will there is a way. I have read some ISTj relationships and the ppl explain them to having all the characteristics I want. Affection and communication. And I HATE smothering but a nice balance to keep me on my toes is nice.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    You used word ENFP 6 times, the same about that you used word ISTJ. However, what's interesting is that you spelled ENFP as ENFP 5 times, and once as Enfp. ISTJ was written like ISTj for 4 times, while twice you wrote it ISTJ. So why would you "mispell" your partner's type more often?

    Seriously speaking, there's a special connection between ISTJ-ENFP types, yes. But I'm not sure whether it's for good or worse. I know I'm also attracted to xNFP types for their immense capability of affection and genuinity. Yet I feel the distance when it comes to such matters as steadiness.

    I think that the largest cap comes from NF vs. S point of view. NFs are ever so much interested in meta information, while S-people may even knowingly ignore it. An extreame example would be giving a gift. S-people think of what the other person needs, and gets it. NF person thinks of what the other person would like to receive from the person who's giving the gift, and in which manner it should be given. Content of the gift as such is rather irrelevant. It's more likely, in my opinion, for S person to keep using gifts given by "the ex", than it's for NF people (for the reasons mentioned above).

    So, to really get most out of ISTJ-ENFP relation, you'll need to work on it, a lot. But like you said, you complete each other, and as such it's potentially very rewarding. "Communication is the key".

    You are probably very interested in typology due to your NF nature, while your partner isn't. I'm not sure why some ISTJs are not interested in this, but I was somewhat hooked right away once I learned my type. Well, of course I had been brainwashed by an INFJ... The first thing I looked up for each type was their imaginary role models from comics, TV-series and movies. ISTJs are often kinda strong heroic characters, and I can't say I didn't like that. Also, it helped me recover from a moderate depression I had at time... to understand why certain aspects of life don't come so naturally to me, and that some aspects of human nature are not weakness in other people, but strengths in me. I've also learned to type people as I meet them, and I think I've become rather good at it... especially while typing people through photos. That helps me understanding the person a lot.

    Also, I found out that reading a book about Emotional Intelligense (by Goleman) was an eye-opener. It thought me a completely new way of seeing things. NF way, if you will. But I still get to keep my SJ way, to which I'm more accustomed to.

    I'm not sure if I even answered your questions... I just did some rambling about the topic.
    "The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine."
    -Nikola Tesla

  5. #5
    Junior Member NetJunkie2's Avatar
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    Wow! Thank you so much, hilarious by the way, on pointing out how many times I incorrectly wrote ENFP and ISTj. Well, there is no particular reason. I am still fairly new to this, and I get the letters confused at times. Before I knew anything about ISTj's I would constantly spell ENFP- EPFN- Being in a hurry and having a million thoughts at once probably doesn't help either.

    Okay, so if he doesn't like to read, what do I do? The thing is if he finds no relevence to something, he will look at it to make me happy, but won't nessessarily look 'into' it. Does that make sense? I know that him understanding the theory is only stepping stones to make our relationship work, but I feel that if we both have the background and knowledge on the other one, then it would be more beneficial.

    Do you think it may be easier just posting questions on solving our particular issues?
    Example: Will I always feel like I'm not priority? How do I get an ISTj to show affection? The man has a hard time petting a damn dog. While no I do NOT want to be smothered, I need physical reassurance. (This he knows is a major issue and he thinks he can overcome easily. I don't. He admits that he is reserved and just needs to 'open-up') That is why I feel like learning about Cognitive Functions will help him realize it isn't going to be that easy.

    Are there other, more simplistic exercises we can do that will strengthen his NF? I know its in him; I have seen it but only when I leave him. (And of course, it makes me feel AMAZING that we had a 'heart to heart') He says that I just need to let him know how I feel and talk to him like this all the time, but what he doesn't understand is I do. He just doesn't open up until it's significant enough. Am I making sense?

    I will hold off on the rest for now, believe me, I know rambling.

    Thanks Again!!

  6. #6
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    I know it's not a very nice thing, but if you want something really bad from an ISTJ and he refuses just emotionally blackmail him. If he doesn't swallow his pride to do this one thing for you just give the robot the cold shoulder.

    And in other news, what is it with all the ISTJ-ENFP pairing anyway?! I kinda feel weird for never once having had a crush on an ISTJ. Maybe it's because I've grown to distrust them. There's something evil lurking inside...

  7. #7
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NetJunkie2 View Post
    Okay, so if he doesn't like to read, what do I do? The thing is if he finds no relevence to something, he will look at it to make me happy, but won't nessessarily look 'into' it. Does that make sense? I know that him understanding the theory is only stepping stones to make our relationship work, but I feel that if we both have the background and knowledge on the other one, then it would be more beneficial.
    Well, I've come across few sites that sounded pure gibberish to me. "Your dominant cognitive function is Introverted Sensing, helped with Extroverted Thinking". I was just like "wat..?". I think most helpful would be to find a page where it says "ENFP is X, therefore do Y to reach Z". S people have an immense ability to ignore theories and information that does not lead to immediate results.

    I've found the following site helpful when learning typology:
    http://www.personalitypage.com/html/ENFP_car.html

    Also, I especially like the part with strengths and weaknesses:
    http://www.personalitypage.com/html/ENFP_rel.html
    (note how it says: "Constant quest for the perfect relationship may make them change relationships frequently" )

    Quote Originally Posted by NetJunkie2 View Post
    Will I always feel like I'm not priority?
    You should not. I think there's two possibilities for this happening.
    1. Your ISTJ does not express his priorities clear enough.
    2. You do not understand your ISTJ's expressions well enough.

    ISTJ's are those kind of persons who show their affection through commitment. If they like you, they are always ready to help you with whatever problem you have. They'll always answer your calls and do almost anything you ask of them. And most of the time, they ask nothing in return. And if ISTJ spontaneously says something about his feelings, they should be very genuine and strong. So one ISTJ-"I love you" is equal to a hundred of ENFP-"I love you".

    Quote Originally Posted by NetJunkie2 View Post
    How do I get an ISTj to show affection?
    Ask for it and say that it's important to you to fear and feel it. Say for example that it empowers you. Same isn't exactly true for ISTJs. Atleast I don't feel like depending on that. I feel a lot more loved when I'm asked to fix something or take care of some issue. It shows that I'm trusted and depended on, and that's what makes ISTJs tick.

    Quote Originally Posted by NetJunkie2 View Post
    The man has a hard time petting a damn dog.
    Me too. I'd love to have a dog (and probably will have, once I can provide it a good home), but I'm afraid that I'll hurt it when playing or petting it. I guess it just takes a lot of practice for us to feel natural about it...

    Quote Originally Posted by NetJunkie2 View Post
    Are there other, more simplistic exercises we can do that will strengthen his NF? I know its in him;
    I read someone saying that one should not try to work on his/her weakest functions, but on his/her secondary function. Having a balanced secondary function will help through a lot, and it's usually a sign of mature person. So in his case it would be TE, the objective knowledge function. It seems that he's way too subjective for his own good, and needs to learn a lot about objectivity. I think that's what happened with me... I learned through Typology to categorize people better, and realize that each of us has their own subjective view of the world. The only way to understand another person is to analyze the world throught their eyes (so actually thinking 'what would I do in a similar situation' kind of logic is faulty, since they do not share the same values and experiences as you do).

    What I find interesting is that you see the problem being that he does not understand you well enough to make you feel good about your relationship. Let's give that a spin, and ask: Do you understand him well enough to make it easy for him to open up and talk to you?

    For example, I once dated a NF... and once she told that she had been discussing our private matters with her friends. I found that disgusting. Very disgusting. The relationship was between us two, and it's details ours to keep. I like to keep my things private, because that makes me feel I'm in control of my life. A fear of losing the control of that would totally cause me to shut down. Could you see this happening in your relationship?
    "The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine."
    -Nikola Tesla

  8. #8
    Klingon Warrior Princess Patches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moiety View Post
    I kinda feel weird for never once having had a crush on an ISTJ. Maybe it's because I've grown to distrust them. There's something evil lurking inside...
    I don't understand it either. If I had to make a list of types I am least likely to be interested in, ENFP would probably be at the top.

    Quote Originally Posted by NetJunkie2 View Post
    Are there other, more simplistic exercises we can do that will strengthen his NF? I know its in him; I have seen it but only when I leave him. (And of course, it makes me feel AMAZING that we had a 'heart to heart') He says that I just need to let him know how I feel and talk to him like this all the time, but what he doesn't understand is I do. He just doesn't open up until it's significant enough. Am I making sense?
    This might sound odd, and it may not be for you/him... But since I'm not particularly good at expressing emotions or verbalizing how I feel, my significant other often asks me to write him emails about it. I'm a better writer than I am a talker, and writing an email is an easier way for me to explain things to him. I know another person on the forum (who isn't even an ISTJ) does the same thing with her partner at times. Like I said, it's probably not something every ISTJ would be comfortable with, but perhaps you could try it. Maybe you'll get more affection out of him if he writes to you.
    “Everybody has a secret world inside of them. All of the people of the world, I mean everybody. No matter how dull and boring they are on the outside, inside
    them they've all got unimaginable, magnificent, wonderful, stupid, amazing worlds. Not just one world. Hundreds of them. Thousands maybe.” -Neil Gaiman

    ~

  9. #9
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    i say no one should ever question rather it's a good thing to ask for what you need. if it's not working..tell him what you need from him...he can do it or not...an istj will always do the work necessary to complete a goal that they deem important...if you love him crazy do what you can to work through your issues but don't compromise on things that are essential to your happiness and don't let him either.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  10. #10
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    I want to hire Habba on a part-time basis to help me understand TJ's.

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