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[SJ] Liberal SJs

RooDee

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Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Messages
5
Well I'm a ISTJ and also a veteran of OIF. I think of myself more of a moderate when it comes to politics. For this election I will be voting Democratic because John McCain does not fully support the veterans. He voted three times against VA medical care funding. Most importantly he refused to support the new GI Bill and was opposed against it. When President bush finally passed the bill after talking against it, he then gave McCain the credit which was 100% BS.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
1,511
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ENTP
I think the social leftism comes from the SJ focus on justice and fairness.
No one would say they're against justice or fairness. The terms can mean completely different things to different people.
 

Giggly

No moss growing on me
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Jun 12, 2008
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9,661
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iSFj
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2
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sx/so
Right-wing SJ women, come out of the shadows and unite with me!

















*crickets chirping*
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
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ESTJ
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1w9
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sp/so
No one would say they're against justice or fairness. The terms can mean completely different things to different people.

Okay, that was NOT what I said. Everyone believes that they're for justice and fairness, no matter what side of the political spectrum they're on.

... which just made me change my mind. I've now decided that SJs can be liberal or conservative, but whichever one they are, they're PASSIONATE about it. They aren't going to change their party, and they aren't going to change their value system, because of what I said about justice and fairness. Liberal SJs might be passionate about minority rights because aspects of that issue (let's say they believe that the lack of gay marriage rights in America is unconstitutional) spark their need for laws to be fair. SJs are almost always going to find something in government that's unfair, and that's probably going to be the one aspect of it that they fight against. (so far as I know, SJs have never understood the idea of "rebel without a cause".) This could just be me (ESTJ) and none of the other SJs, so let me know if I'm way off base.
 

wildcat

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Jun 8, 2007
Messages
3,622
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INTP
Okay, that was NOT what I said. Everyone believes that they're for justice and fairness, no matter what side of the political spectrum they're on.

... which just made me change my mind. I've now decided that SJs can be liberal or conservative, but whichever one they are, they're PASSIONATE about it. They aren't going to change their party, and they aren't going to change their value system, because of what I said about justice and fairness. Liberal SJs might be passionate about minority rights because aspects of that issue (let's say they believe that the lack of gay marriage rights in America is unconstitutional) spark their need for laws to be fair. SJs are almost always going to find something in government that's unfair, and that's probably going to be the one aspect of it that they fight against. (so far as I know, SJs have never understood the idea of "rebel without a cause".) This could just be me (ESTJ) and none of the other SJs, so let me know if I'm way off base.
Exactly.
I was about to spell the thing out.. but you did it so much better.

I do hope you stay in the forum.
 

"?"

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Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
1,167
MBTI Type
TiSe
The type descriptions portray SJs as conservative, traditional and from a USian perspective very Republican. When I was a Christian I held the usual fundy conservative positions. After deconverting I reevaluated everything and now on a one dimensional US political spectrum I'm mostly a lefty.

I’m curious about how SJs go about holding liberal ideals and such.
I think that this may be overrated. The only person that I have ever discussed type with in detail was ISTJ. She was quite liberal on some things, but conservative on others. Take these Political Affiliations for what they're worth. However as an ISTP I have always viewed myself as a Centrist which is reflected in the stats.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
1,511
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ENTP
Okay, that was NOT what I said. Everyone believes that they're for justice and fairness, no matter what side of the political spectrum they're on.

... which just made me change my mind. I've now decided that SJs can be liberal or conservative, but whichever one they are, they're PASSIONATE about it. They aren't going to change their party, and they aren't going to change their value system, because of what I said about justice and fairness. Liberal SJs might be passionate about minority rights because aspects of that issue (let's say they believe that the lack of gay marriage rights in America is unconstitutional) spark their need for laws to be fair. SJs are almost always going to find something in government that's unfair, and that's probably going to be the one aspect of it that they fight against. (so far as I know, SJs have never understood the idea of "rebel without a cause".) This could just be me (ESTJ) and none of the other SJs, so let me know if I'm way off base.

No, I more or less agree with what you've "now decided".
 

frenchkiss

New member
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
66
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w5
Okay, that was NOT what I said. Everyone believes that they're for justice and fairness, no matter what side of the political spectrum they're on.

... which just made me change my mind. I've now decided that SJs can be liberal or conservative, but whichever one they are, they're PASSIONATE about it. They aren't going to change their party, and they aren't going to change their value system, because of what I said about justice and fairness. Liberal SJs might be passionate about minority rights because aspects of that issue (let's say they believe that the lack of gay marriage rights in America is unconstitutional) spark their need for laws to be fair. SJs are almost always going to find something in government that's unfair, and that's probably going to be the one aspect of it that they fight against. (so far as I know, SJs have never understood the idea of "rebel without a cause".) This could just be me (ESTJ) and none of the other SJs, so let me know if I'm way off base.


Yes, this is very true for me. I am a liberal, and in my case it's because my family depended a lot on government progams when I was growing up because my parents had low-paying jobs. So I tend to have a knee-jerk reaction toward any kind of conservatism in that specific area.

I can get really stupidly reactive about it: "Take away food stamps and poor children will STARVE!!"

I'm able to stay calm unless something specific triggers me and I just lose all rationality.

And being a "rebel without a cause" just seems like self-indulgence to me.
 

entropie

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Apr 24, 2008
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What do you think ? Too asslike ? :D

LiberalSearchingFor.jpg
 

FDG

pathwise dependent
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
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To be honest social conservativism is something I have never been able to understand fully. It's like trying to stop a flood by bare hands. You may disagree that your home must be destroyed by the flood, you may not like it, but that's what is going to happen regardless of your opinion. It's more efficient to let go, and hope you will remain alive somehow, rather than drown.
 

pure_mercury

Order Now!
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
6,946
MBTI Type
ESFJ
Yes, this is very true for me. I am a liberal, and in my case it's because my family depended a lot on government progams when I was growing up because my parents had low-paying jobs. So I tend to have a knee-jerk reaction toward any kind of conservatism in that specific area.

I can get really stupidly reactive about it: "Take away food stamps and poor children will STARVE!!"

I'm able to stay calm unless something specific triggers me and I just lose all rationality.

And being a "rebel without a cause" just seems like self-indulgence to me.

Children will not starve if you take away food stamps. Especially if you make it easier for adults to get low-paying-but-steady work.
 

frenchkiss

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Sep 8, 2008
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INFP
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Children will not starve if you take away food stamps. Especially if you make it easier for adults to get low-paying-but-steady work.

What do you mean by low-paying-but-steady work? A single parent with two kids who has a steady job making the minimum wage simply isn't going to get by without help. I think that the haves and have-nots are a fundamental part of a capitalist system and so, morally, a safety net is needed.

I just like the idea of having the funds there for those kids just in case. Going back to what I was saying in my previous thread, though, my opinion on this matter is founded on the sense of helplessness I felt as a kid growing up, so it comes from a completely emotional place, not a rational one. It's a totally fear-based thing, so I don't really see it changing no matter how many facts are thrown at me. I'm very resistant to changing it.

I'm just being honest, sorry!

I do appreciate how you presented it in terms of "the kids won't starve" instead of saying "who cares if they starve?" It's the people who see things from that sort of social darwinist perspective that I have a very difficult time dealing with.
 

pure_mercury

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What do you mean by low-paying-but-steady work? A single parent with two kids who has a steady job making the minimum wage simply isn't going to get by without help. I think that the haves and have-nots are a fundamental part of a capitalist system and so, morally, a safety net is needed.

I just like the idea of having the funds there for those kids just in case. Going back to what I was saying in my previous thread, though, my opinion on this matter is founded on the sense of helplessness I felt as a kid growing up, so it comes from a completely emotional place, not a rational one. It's a totally fear-based thing, so I don't really see it changing no matter how many facts are thrown at me. I'm very resistant to changing it.

I'm just being honest, sorry!

I do appreciate how you presented it in terms of "the kids won't starve" instead of saying "who cares if they starve?" It's the people who see things from that sort of social darwinist perspective that I have a very difficult time dealing with.

At least you're honest. I'm a libertarian, so I actually don't even believe in a minimum wage, but we can argue about that in a political thread later. ;) Besides, no one I have ever met has ever said, "Who cares if they starve?" I've seen that as a libertarian stereotype, but it's never, ever been the case. The people I've met with the most blase attitude toward the poor have actually been Democrats and the politically indifferent.
 

frenchkiss

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Sep 8, 2008
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Besides, no one I have ever met has ever said, "Who cares if they starve?" I've seen that as a libertarian stereotype, but it's never, ever been the case.

I must just spend too much time around people who like to push my buttons!
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
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1,511
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ENTP
I think the flood is progress and the house is the old/traditional way.

FDG correct me if I'm wrong.

The problem with that is the assumption that everything that isn't traditional is progress. I can't think of anything more foolhardy.
 
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