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  1. #21
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    What do you think this is?

    "What": An unhealthy attitude inviting hardships.


    "Why":


    Judging by his/her writing, he/she seems very concentrated on this "how far can my "N" go?" question. It's as if it would affect very significant parts of his/her life.

    If you look at the list of famous ISTJs, there are no great scientific or philosophical thinkers on the list...
    I want to understand the big picture and how it all fits together too.
    Improving your inferior functions is indeed a natural process but intricately seeking to change your disposition immensely provokes disaster.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post




    Improving your inferior functions is indeed a natural process but intricately seeking to change your disposition immensely provokes disaster.
    Why

  3. #23
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    I disagree wholeheartedly with the suggestions that to make Ne work and work right, you ought to make random associations between things.... that just connecting anything loosely will do the trick.


    This is precisely what not to do. N can unify all kinds of random things in the most haphazard way - it needs to be guided and checked. all the time. many Ne prim/2ndary users here on this board don't check the broad paintings Ne leaves one with. I could give examples but i will refrain - you've seen them out there in the global warming and overpopulation threads, ill tell you that much thats bad N. That is what you will be like and get if you use Ne randomly.

    Dont be that g...... ISTJ ;P

  4. #24
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Maybe you try free writing, just write down anything that comes into your head. Don't read it and don't self edit, and do for about 15 minutes. Don't worry about structure and format and see what comes out.
    I'm very N too though, so it's a bit like breathing. Another excersize you could do, is think up a situation, and then try think about all the different possible outcomes. At first stick with the more likely, then let you imagination take over. It doesn't matter how ridiculous it gets. If you do this maybe once a day, then you will be well on your way to developing Ne. If you do it for the mundane stuff, eventually you'll be able to apply it to other stuff.
    When you in all seriousiness say something like "I think there are whales swimming in the water pipes again" in response to bad plumbing(when the pipes sing, it sounds like whale song), say....you are well on your way to Ne-dom.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #25
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I havent read the thread yet and I probably wont cause I am too lazy; nevertheless I'ld like to give my five cents which maybe can help you on your quest.

    There are some people who think by bending some words and being clever in their language they have already understood what the nature of Intuition is. Some other people draw some abstract art and think now they are Intuitives. I wouldnt say that they are not, but one thing's for sure, primary N's they are not.

    First of all, to me N isnt a real thing, it's more a mathematical function. A function does give every element x,t,z ... in a set of definitions a target quantity y, k, j, h ... .
    This is an important thing to understand, some people think N has a privilege on being expressed by words but thats not true. In fact N is first of all the sum of sensory perceptions, which are in comparism to S, not perceived one by one, but all at once. This comes in different shapes, to some people it's like connecting music or a feeling to a bad situation they once were in, to others it's like having a distortion in perception, because when you are in a noisy environment like a supermarket, or sometimes just watching advertiesements on television, you get crazy cause you cant filter the sensory input and have it in your head all at once.

    TV ads are in my opinion a good description for what is not N. There are so many ads coming in sequence which are not related to each other. Some play loud music, some calm, some have only people who are talking, this makes me go crazy. There's so much disharmony in TV ads, if you ever want to torture me to death, take TV ads.

    So N is the process which takes sensory data and combines them to a big picture. Or draws a connection between them, which is haphazard but existant. A good example for this is me and remembering faces. I have the ability to remember people, I've only seen for a splitsecond in my life. I never remember names and I still dont know my moms birthday. But people I never forget. Now comes the intresting thing, I cant describe people. If the police would ask me what a person was wearing I couldnt even remember that probably. This totally goes unnoticed by me. When I meet a new person it's like I save a behavior pattern from him in my brain. I recognize a person by the tone of his voice, by the way he moves and reacts and thru sympathy, a big deal of. But I couldnt even paint my own mother. It's just not possible. ( Imagine what this means for giving people directions. I remember every little path I ever walked on, my gf calls me her master of orientation; but when I need to give directions to others, I completly fail or tell it to them so imprecise they wont have a clue what I am talking about ).

    Another example is soccer. I am a terrible field player. I've zero overview in 3D-space and when running on the field I always miss something ( an enemy player, the ball or I stumble and fall on my nose ). It's horrible. But as goal keeper I'm unmatched. I personally have the wild theory that the best goal keepers in soccer tend to be Intuitives. When I am standing in the goal, it's this one moment you have to watch only, the moment someone fires the ball on your goal. In that moment I see and hear nothing, but I feel it. I feel to my right where the goal ends and to my left where the goal ends. I anticipate from the behaviour of the enemy player in seconds what he will do and react. It's a big picture, a mathematical equation with a billion possible outcomes, which does the nearer the moment comes, have fewer and fewer possible outcomes.

    Many people say that getting in touch with your Intuitive site would need you to think differently. I am convinced that whatever you do with yourself, you should never touch your rationality. Cause this is your highest possibility of returning to the real world and of staying grounded. A bad example of what happens when you loose the grip, are NTP people, whose intuition has taken them so far away from reality and whose thinking is so stubborn and introverted that they start to believe their own shit and totally become psycho to society. This not good and for an introverted thinker may it a Ti guy or a Si Te guy always a thing he should watch out for.

    If you want to develop your intuition you have first of all to sharpen your senses. You have to watch your environment and listen to background noises in your daily environment you would otherwise not listen too. You gotta feel the world you are living in, to the extent that you can walk thru a town blindfoolded but perfectly align yourself with the movements of others to dance with them rather than circumventing them when walking thru town.

    What I am describing here is my personal strong NeFe connection, I have no other means of asserting a perception function to the real world and my way mustnt be the one and only. But it can give an idea on what its like to walk in some kind of virtual reality.

    I dont need to advise you that this is a dangerous path and it will make you go crazy. Connecting the dots between everything and feeling it does first of all bring you hypersensitivity. Always when a person you're close to says something you connect that in some way to you yourself and think the person wanted to criticize you. After hypersensitivity, when you finally scared away all your friends, comes paranoia. You think people are doing certain things especially to anger you. You think political events are happening in a pattern and you are convinced the loge of freemason is out there to get to you. Then you'll do alot of drugs, ranging from alcohol to harder stuff and you'll think its the drugs that give you your visions, not noticing that its the drugs that choke your visions and actually give you relief for a moment until you go crazy again. You'll start sharing your visions and insights with your friends, analyzing their lifes, giving meaning to your own life by formulating and assigning roles to the people around you. You will eventually find out mbti and think you are not crazy and create a huge extrovert puppet theater starring your life and your friends will take your shit for only so long. And after that they will tell you, you are crazy. They will neglect your existence and never call you again, because the stories you made up became so frightening that you've lost control about everything and your grasp on reality has blurred into an imaginary world of connections you made up between random points not relating to anything no more.

    And after that, when you're still alive or living in freedom, Intuition will spit you out and leave you as a mental wreck, not able to take any outside pressure, being highly depressive and a loner with zero effective degrees of freedom.

    So be careful what you wish for.

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmiN3KAF1Yo&feature=related"].[/YOUTUBE]
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #26
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Guys,
    I tend to agree with every body on the bad stuff... any one who is truly intuitive has tasted that, but I was assuming the OP is just talking about strengthing a weak muscle for idea generation, not the whole kit and caboodle.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #27
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    Guys,
    I tend to agree with every body on the bad stuff... any one who is truly intuitive has tasted that, but I was assuming the OP is just talking about strengthing a weak muscle for idea generation, not the whole kit and caboodle.
    Ya but it's so rare a S actually asks a N for something so you of course want to make a big show
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #28
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Yeah, that's me....showy and flashy.

    The op's probably going WTF, I only asked this....and I opened a can of worms.
    Welcome to the dark side, mwhahaha!
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #29
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    I'm guessing you're probably not ISTJ. Either that, or you've entered the phase of "Inferior Intrigue", which is quite temporary and intermittent. EDIT: and normal but this doesn't seem to be the case.

    My sister(ISFJ) is an example. She likes to deal in the abstract but never to this degree of actually pursuing the "potential of preference". If you are ISTJ, it is unnatural that you are behaving this way, it is also destructive. The primary question then centers on type verification. And behind that, a psychological unhealthy imbalance.
    I disagree.

    I think developing one's inferior is a worthwhile endeavor.


    What I don't think is easy, is to develop Ne and expect to only apply it to work or academia. Lao, if you end up developing Ne it will permeate all areas of your life. Just like Si and Te do now.

    Maybe you could try some psychoactive drugs :P


    I think Ne is basically asking "what if" without attributing value. Si will focus your mind on the options that your brain already preconceived as "mattering". Constantly "what if" and try to run with it. Try to see the world as not having any history. Your the first man on earth, and you can't rely on past experience(s) to arrive to any conclusions. Some alien computer was just found somewhere on earth and you were asked to figure out how it works. But you can't rely on what you already know about computers, since this is a new thing with numerous possibilities.

  10. #30
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    TILL YOU LIVE IN IT.

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