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  1. #181
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    ESFJs forced me to dress up like a mailman, don a codpiece and dance to Right Said Fred songs. I hates them. I hates them forever. Excuse me while I put in my ear gauges to show how not fake and authentic I am.

    The secret government is run by ESFJ lizard people. I should know, because I'm a secret ESFJ lizard person.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
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  2. #182
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    Lol, you're the sole defender of fort ESFJ. You do well when outlasting sieges or surviving skirmishes. If I was the only one left to defend my type I think I would go nuts and just run in there mindlessly swinging my sword until someone cuts me through.

    How is the situation in Greece? You haven't had anyone try and nick your stuff have you?
    Well it helps that I don't see it as defending anything since that would imply some sort of bizarre acceptance that I am responsible for other ESFJ's and their evil ways.

    As for Greece I thought it would be like that as well, but since I wen't to the isle of Kalymnos which is a big hotspot for climbers and is doing very well out of it on a local scale; I haven't seen anything particularly destitute or 'rioty'.

    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtlost View Post
    You know what I don't get... since the Fe-dom is supposed to collect, so to speak, information from others since they don't trust their own internal logic... then I don't know why they are not Typology Central as often as the rest of us? Either they seek affirmation from a different source, or they are on here and just shy (since it would mean that they are using their inferior function).
    I suspect a theory could be made that they are already affirmed by their surroundings as those surroundings already cater to them due to the numerecy of their type, so much so that many don't feel the tug of the inferior through conflict and ostracization as I have.
    So I think you are right that people of the type do probably get affirmation from a different source than the more inspective ones of introverts, the analytical of thinkers, the theorising of N's or the experiential ones of S.

    Although the Si of course plays it's part.

    Myself it was exactly the motive you posted that brought me here. I wished to gather more information about myself and others and my inability to....well....work things out for myself without an established foundation, is what brought me to the theory and eventually to here.
    It is a collection of information, but it is hardly a rules based system that I apply socially. I've long since learned from the development of my secondary function that interaction with others rarely runs on a structured basis and I had already learnt from an early age that one of the most important lessons in life is the realisation that others don't think like you do.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  3. #183
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Well it helps that I don't see it as defending anything since that would imply some sort of bizarre acceptance that I am responsible for other ESFJ's and their evil ways.


    I suspect a theory could be made that they are already affirmed by their surroundings as those surroundings already cater to them due to the numerecy of their type, so much so that many don't feel the tug of the inferior through conflict and ostracization as I have.
    So I think you are right that people of the type do probably get affirmation from a different source than the more inspective ones of introverts, the analytical of thinkers, the theorising of N's or the experiential ones of S.

    Although the Si of course plays it's part.

    Myself it was exactly the motive you posted that brought me here. I wished to gather more information about myself and others and my inability to....well....work things out for myself without an established foundation, is what brought me to the theory and eventually to here.
    It is a collection of information, but it is hardly a rules based system that I apply socially. I've long since learned from the development of my secondary function that interaction with others rarely runs on a structured basis and I had already learnt from an early age that one of the most important lessons in life is the realisation that others don't think like you do.
    I think that's why I spend some time on here too, though. I like the idea of getting a better picture of what it means to be me (I like to think about it as reading a novel... except it's all about me ...cause I am self-referential like that, yo xD). I don't know how I'd like to do it, though. I know that simply calling myself an Fe-dom wouldn't do it for me (no one ever really thinks I am an Fe dom, anyway).

    My main problem is that I don't know how to explain myself in words that others would understand; I am not worried with people not thinking like me... I am more worried that my true self just won't be understood.

  4. #184
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtlost View Post
    I think that's why I spend some time on here too, though. I like the idea of getting a better picture of what it means to be me (I like to think about it as reading a novel... except it's all about me ...cause I am self-referential like that, yo xD). I don't know how I'd like to do it, though. I know that simply calling myself an Fe-dom wouldn't do it for me (no one ever really thinks I am an Fe dom, anyway).

    My main problem is that I don't know how to explain myself in words that others would understand; I am not worried with people not thinking like me... I am more worried that my true self just won't be understood.
    See that difference in motive is fascinating in it's way, I don't even have a concept of a true self, it is the frightening reality of myself that I change based on context and group, although I have been able to resist the influence of more negative ones I think, but that is entirely based on my upbringing and mainly positive environment.

    Imagine how frightening it is to realise that you are almost entirely dictated by others perceptions.

    Individuality finds little purchase for me in that mess, although I admire your own conviction to be understood. Not an easy task, especially when others would most likely distort the information you give them with their own biases and understandings.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  5. #185
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    I don't hate any ESFJ's. Except for stereotypes of people I don't know whose values are opposite mine. And perhaps some politicians and lobbyists and such.

  6. #186
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I don't hate any ESFJ's. Except for stereotypes of people I don't know whose values are opposite mine. And perhaps some politicians and lobbyists and such.
    I've actually been devoting a great deal of thought to how Si works and how when it isn't dominant it becomes a generalised arbiter of how reality ought to be.

    Because ESJ'S are so defined by the environment and culture that surrounds them and which they grew up with, more so I think than other types, the nature of their culture becomes more evident through them and they often adhere to the many stereotypes people have about different countries.

    This also results in vastly different behaviour between individuals of different cultures, while at their core being very similar.
    I mention this because while on this holiday I have noticed a great deal of american holidayers as well. And the first thing I've noticed about them is just how extraverted they are compared to even myself.

    Because the USA is, at a superficial glance, an extraverted culture whereas my own is quite downplayed. Which isn't to say that the more negative ESFJ's here are no less frustrating, but it is done in a subtly different way.
    For example there is no way I would ever have gone round the table next to mine at a restaurant, loudly proclaiming: "HI IM SIMONE HOW ARE YOU?!" As a lady from The USA did so last night.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  7. #187
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    See that difference in motive is fascinating in it's way, I don't even have a concept of a true self, it is the frightening reality of myself that I change based on context and group, although I have been able to resist the influence of more negative ones I think, but that is entirely based on my upbringing and mainly positive environment.

    Imagine how frightening it is to realise that you are almost entirely dictated by others perceptions.

    Individuality finds little purchase for me in that mess, although I admire your own conviction to be understood. Not an easy task, especially when others would most likely distort the information you give them with their own biases and understandings.
    You think we're on here for different motives? ...hhmmm, maybe... mayyyybbbeeee... it could be that we're both 6w7s so maybe that's why I think a bit differently. (if that's really your enneagram)

    It's true. I feel that I strongly have a self that goes beyond friendships and other's expectations. This happened probably because I've moved around a bit too often so it's hard for me to realize that I exist in relation to others (I don't even think I exist in relation to my family). At the same time, I know that the self lives within the confines of genetics and experiences. And I am not really worried that other people would be confused/misguided (I am already a confusing person), what is more important is that I get to see the what's written in the pages life has given me.

    nnnoooo, don't be frightened... (well, feel how you feel). I don't know what it's like to experience that feeling (yet), but maybe you do have a sense of individuality; although we can let experiences effect us, we can always take the time to reshape the past, present and future in order to separate ourselves from reality.

  8. #188
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtlost View Post
    You think we're on here for different motives? ...hhmmm, maybe... mayyyybbbeeee... it could be that we're both 6w7s so maybe that's why I think a bit differently. (if that's really your enneagram)

    It's true. I feel that I strongly have a self that goes beyond friendships and other's expectations. This happened probably because I've moved around a bit too often so it's hard for me to realize that I exist in relation to others (I don't even think I exist in relation to my family). At the same time, I know that the self lives within the confines of genetics and experiences. And I am not really worried that other people would be confused/misguided (I am already a confusing person), what is more important is that I get to see the what's written in the pages life has given me.

    nnnoooo, don't be frightened... (well, feel how you feel). I don't know what it's like to experience that feeling (yet), but maybe you do have a sense of individuality; although we can let experiences effect us, we can always take the time to reshape the past, present and future in order to separate ourselves from reality.
    I suppose it's just my relation to the world that I require things to be spelled out. It's an unfortunate and sobering reality for me and while I idealise the concepts of being creative, different and individual, I realise this is a form of wish.

    I am not those things and never will be, so I need to work on appreciating the qualities I do possess. I don't really knowhow to escape my experiences and how they shape me though, they are just concrete blocks on my soul.

    I hope you get to see those pages.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  9. #189
    Blind Guardian Haven's Avatar
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    Dr. ESFJ, or: How I learned to stop worrying and love the hate.
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  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    I suppose it's just my relation to the world that I require things to be spelled out. It's an unfortunate and sobering reality for me and while I idealise the concepts of being creative, different and individual, I realise this is a form of wish.

    I am not those things and never will be, so I need to work on appreciating the qualities I do possess. I don't really knowhow to escape my experiences and how they shape me though, they are just concrete blocks on my soul.

    I hope you get to see those pages.
    FWIW yesterday I was running calculations for my upcoming accountacy exam and I kept fucking up. I kept forgetting the questions, overlooking key pieces of data, being unsure about the optimal method of solving the problems, being oblivious to small details etc. For a little while I actually found myself actually envying SJs and wishing I was one; at the very least the stronger Si would let me dominate all this. In many ways my life would be easy and maybe even better as a sensor.

    You no doubt have many talents you can embrace and use. At least it all has worth. Much of the stuff out there becomes pure novelty if only due to lack of application.

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