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  1. #171
    Blind Guardian Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly View Post
    I had one classmate at the highschool... None really liked her, but she was so self confidant and manipulating, that she just created a sense of a being an "elite" and somehow it wokred out for her. She made a group of a few girls, all a bit shy inidividuals and one can just saw how terrible she was manipulating with them. She named herself to be a representative of our class, she did most of the school/class related works and all the teachers loved her. She fooled all of them. At the end, when we disagree with her in some way, she just had this huge support from teacher, so the rest of the class could just silently listen to her. She was etremly bossy and manipulative person. I'd say she became a "Hitler" in our class.
    I'm pretty sure that's how Hitler came to power too. No really, did she invade Poland and send the undesirables off to concentration camps? Did anyone die because of her feverish demonisation of those she didn't like to thunderous applause?

    Anyway, she doesn't seem like ESFJ in the way you described her, especially in appearing "elite" and "fooling everyone" (how exactly?). ESFJs are manipulative caregivers, not manipulative overachievers--that's ENFJ territory.

    I'm interested in hearing what is going on to make people attribute such horrible things to ESFJs. Must be the curse of the absentee--the least represented type just happens to be the one ragged on the most.
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  2. #172
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saslou View Post
    Honest and direct which is misinterpreted as rude/critical
    ??? most ESFJs are not direct at all. Fe is like the least direct function on the planet (that an Ni. NFJs probably take the cake for least direct)

    Angry issues .. But that's just momentarily
    agreed

    Just as with the rest of the types .. We have a lot of love to give.
    you have too much love to give. that's the problem
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  3. #173
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly View Post
    I had one classmate at the highschool... None really liked her, but she was so self confidant and manipulating, that she just created a sense of a being an "elite" and somehow it wokred out for her. She made a group of a few girls, all a bit shy inidividuals and one can just saw how terrible she was manipulating with them. She named herself to be a representative of our class, she did most of the school/class related works and all the teachers loved her. She fooled all of them. At the end, when we disagree with her in some way, she just had this huge support from teacher, so the rest of the class could just silently listen to her. She was etremly bossy and manipulative person. I'd say she became a "Hitler" in our class.
    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    she doesn't seem like ESFJ in the way you described her, especially in appearing "elite" and "fooling everyone" (how exactly?). ESFJs are manipulative caregivers, not manipulative overachievers--that's ENFJ territory.
    This was my immediate thought, too, upon reading this. It sounds like ENFJ 3w4 territory, not ESFJ.

    @Haven I agree that ESFJ "hate" probably has a lot to do with few ESFJs here to explain and defend behavior. It's easy to make a scapegoat of the person who is not visibly able to show hurt or stand up for themselves.

    I also suspect many people who retreat to the internet - probably often INxx - are those who have felt victimized in the past by people that seem to fulfill ESFJ stereotype - those who stereotypically are outspoken, decisive, and interpersonally skilled. Even if that is true, though, it is cruel and ironic to turn the tables and become the bully in retribution for having been bullied - an it would be beneficial to keep in mind that ESFJs dd not chiose their type any more so than anyone else. That, plus how often do we all mistype others based on misunderstanding?

    I feel like it's a pretty important step in typology comprehension to get past "XXXXs are horrible" to separating tendencies and individuals, as well as not using type as a scapegoat for interpersonal conflict.

    IMO "so-and-so is XXXX" is never a valid reason to dislike someone.

  4. #174
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaine View Post
    But you could create your own ideals.
    Everyone is an individual, and you can never know how the other one' s head works, that' s why you can never know what is bset for another.
    Society norms are created by people as imperfect as you and I, and the only reason they are widely spread, because your type and others of your likeness think the majority is always right, and at the same time they are the majority. You are more videly spread, you' re about 9 - 13%, while we ar just 2 - 4% of overall population. Of course your kind of thinking will be more videly spread.

    As for the post, I know I might' ve sounded somewhat rude, I don' t really hate ESFJ, just there are some traits that really piss me off about them. Please, just don' t try to shape us NTs like you do. You have your school, we have ours. Don' t try to sway us to your school. Because our is small enough. We also need to preserve ourselves.
    P. S. Why does everyone says I should hate fours? They' re not my fave type, but they' re okay IMO. I know sometimes they might seem a little bit weird, but we all have the right to be like that. Like I said, we choose what we believe in. Also, my ENFP friend I mentioned is most likely to be a four.
    I was joking. I actually understand the frustrations of living in a world trapped in assumptions of correctness.

    Reality is a temporary existence and it is always changing.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
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  5. #175
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    last esfj I lived with smashed a picture of her boyfriend and squeezed a juicebox on me.

    dey r meen

  6. #176
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    last esfj I lived with smashed a picture of her boyfriend and squeezed a juicebox on me.

    dey r meen
    https://www.davidandgoliathtees.com/...ndex/view/id/4

  7. #177
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    lol, that's retarded.

  8. #178
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stigmata View Post
    Are there any full-fledged ESFJ's that even post here? Do ESFJ's even use the internet? Where do they find the time between their busy, diligent worker bee hollow shell of an existence. You know, when they're not baking, organzing, and actively exercising extreme prejudice against any aspect of society that could be considered counter-cultural or that would upset the delicate status quo.
    *clears throat*

    Ahem. While taking a weeks holiday from my jobs I am here in Greece late at night posting on here.

    Mind you that does somewhat break my status quo of normality, better burn this cheap android tablet where it lies.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  9. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    *clears throat*

    Ahem. While taking a weeks holiday from my jobs I am here in Greece late at night posting on here.

    Mind you that does somewhat break my status quo of normality, better burn this cheap android tablet where it lies.
    Lol, you're the sole defender of fort ESFJ. You do well when outlasting sieges or surviving skirmishes. If I was the only one left to defend my type I think I would go nuts and just run in there mindlessly swinging my sword until someone cuts me through.

    How is the situation in Greece? You haven't had anyone try and nick your stuff have you?

  10. #180
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
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    You know what I don't get... since the Fe-dom is supposed to collect, so to speak, information from others since they don't trust their own internal logic... then I don't know why they are not Typology Central as often as the rest of us? Either they seek affirmation from a different source, or they are on here and just shy (since it would mean that they are using their inferior function).

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