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  1. #131
    Junior Member atreasuredembrace's Avatar
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    @RaptorWizard, you mean the intuitives right? O_o;;;;;
    Make it bold and beautiful.

  2. #132
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atreasuredembrace View Post
    I think most ESFJs are ESFJs because there may have been a life event that really made a huge impact on their lives that when their personality does change, they actually don't notice and then they're in denial of so many different things because we're not too familiar on the latter. I think this is where NTs struggle to understand since NTs really focus on the big picture but with us SFs, we really focus so much on detail because to us, details count. It's like we pick and choose who we are, but we fail to see the total package. (Kinda like most Catholics.. but that's another subject. Not gonna go there).
    Wait, this is really interesting but I'm kinda confused. Could you explain what you mean here?

  3. #133
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    The one thing that kills me about Fe doms in general is when they decide to be cold about something they dislike while remaining in the situation. I feel like you should either speak up, work on coming around, or just go do your own thing instead. It can be really hard for others to deal with an unspoken social divide, and it can become very challenging to accommodate both people without showing preference to either one when it is clear that one person is waging a personal battle. In the worst case, the target person doesn't even realize what is trying to be conveyed, but others can feel it and it has a negative impact on the experience for everyone else involved.

    [edit - sorry, had a long personal add-on here and decided to remove it, because it kept going and going and going!]

  4. #134
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I'm glad mom stayed in touch with them, but I wish she could manage to stop acting like that when they're around. I am grateful to have two sets of grandparents, but because of my parents, my relationship with my paternal grandparents is lukewarm at best. I feel like the relationship in general might be better if my mom would just decline to participate, since she can't manage to refrain from being passive-aggressive.
    I get really mad at my mom for doing this to relatives too.

  5. #135
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    The one thing that kills me about Fe doms in general is when they decide to be cold about something they dislike while remaining in the situation. I feel like you should either speak up, work on coming around, or just go do your own thing instead. It can be really hard for others to deal with an unspoken social divide, and it can become very challenging to accommodate both people without showing preference to either one when it is clear that one person is waging a personal battle. In the worst case, the target person doesn't even realize what is trying to be conveyed, but others can feel it and it has a negative impact on the experience for everyone else involved.

    [edit - sorry, had a long personal add-on here and decided to remove it, because it kept going and going and going!]
    This is something ive had much trouble with in the past and occasionally still do....it's like a mental block. It takes a great deal of willpower and experience to break through this block and break the harmony.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  6. #136
    Junior Member atreasuredembrace's Avatar
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    This is something ive had much trouble with in the past and occasionally still do....it's like a mental block. It takes a great deal of willpower and experience to break through this block and break the harmony.
    I totally agree with the speaking up part. As a ESFJ, I truly value peace in ALL situations, and when it's really necessary to state my needs, I literally forget about them because I place so much importance on the harmony because without that peace, I absolutely cannot function and then it's just emotional overload for everyone. I really admire that I am comfortable expressing emotion because I know that it's very hard for a lot of people to do so.

    @Honor, I'm not sure how many ESFJs I've spoken to in my lifetime (we all love socializing so it's like russian roulette when we really nail another ESFJ in front of us), but from my personal experience speaking to a lot of SJs in my life we all have one thing in common: we all have this pain that we keep inside of us (and the scary part about that is that is what drives us in life.. not very healthy), and we connect on that level of empathy. Us SJs have experienced something that affects us (whether it's directly or directly at someone else close to us like family members) and this is why we feel that it is our "duty" to change the world so no one has to feel what we feel and our life runs a lot more smoothly and comfortably.

    A lot of SJs really do care about others wayyyy too much. We care about our world wayyyy too much. We wanna control it and mold it to our personal values so no one has to feel alone, no one has to feel sad, no one has to feel pain, no one has to feel ugly (I personally hate feeling ugly).

    With me, I get angry when taken out of my comfort zone and I noticed a lot of us xSFJs don't really like challenges because when we have grown up with morals, it's like a slap to our face that we really don't get it or when we get asked to explain our own morales, we get frustrated that most people don't understand the basic concept in the first place (idk if that sounded very logical).

    Idk, I don't believe ESFJs are really going to fulfill their potential if they don't challenge themselves to go outside of the box and their comfort zone. I find it very rewarding, which is why I'm here so I can get a better understanding of the other 15 types and maybe I can help change the world too
    Make it bold and beautiful.

  7. #137
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atreasuredembrace View Post
    I totally agree with the speaking up part. As a ESFJ, I truly value peace in ALL situations, and when it's really necessary to state my needs, I literally forget about them because I place so much importance on the harmony because without that peace, I absolutely cannot function and then it's just emotional overload for everyone. I really admire that I am comfortable expressing emotion because I know that it's very hard for a lot of people to do so.

    @Honor, I'm not sure how many ESFJs I've spoken to in my lifetime (we all love socializing so it's like russian roulette when we really nail another ESFJ in front of us), but from my personal experience speaking to a lot of SJs in my life we all have one thing in common: we all have this pain that we keep inside of us (and the scary part about that is that is what drives us in life.. not very healthy), and we connect on that level of empathy. Us SJs have experienced something that affects us (whether it's directly or directly at someone else close to us like family members) and this is why we feel that it is our "duty" to change the world so no one has to feel what we feel and our life runs a lot more smoothly and comfortably.

    A lot of SJs really do care about others wayyyy too much. We care about our world wayyyy too much. We wanna control it and mold it to our personal values so no one has to feel alone, no one has to feel sad, no one has to feel pain, no one has to feel ugly (I personally hate feeling ugly).

    With me, I get angry when taken out of my comfort zone and I noticed a lot of us xSFJs don't really like challenges because when we have grown up with morals, it's like a slap to our face that we really don't get it or when we get asked to explain our own morales, we get frustrated that most people don't understand the basic concept in the first place (idk if that sounded very logical).

    Idk, I don't believe ESFJs are really going to fulfill their potential if they don't challenge themselves to go outside of the box and their comfort zone. I find it very rewarding, which is why I'm here so I can get a better understanding of the other 15 types and maybe I can help change the world too
    You certainly seem much more evolved than most of the other ESFJs I've met, atreasuredembrace.

  8. #138
    Junior Member atreasuredembrace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    You certainly seem much more evolved than most of the other ESFJs I've met, atreasuredembrace.
    I've TONS of life experience behind me, and I have evolved from ENFP to ESFJ because of them. I really admire intuitives because I LOVEEEE ideas, and I wish we can live in our world of possibilities. But like all people promise, your dreams don't become reality unless you work hard for them or if your dreams don't come true, there's something better out there that we're not focused on.

    A lot of oppression, especially family expectations that don't make me happy, really affects me. Actually, the SLIGHTEST criticism and oppression affects me because it tells me I'm not doing my job/duty/role in life correctly.

    What keeps me in check is that I have to remember I'm not getting paid for this so I need to chill the eff out and relax, BREATHE, and ask myself how will others view me on this (because I value people's opinions and their thoughts of our reputation on me).

    I hope other ESFJs can read this one day.. maybe a few years down the line when they decide to cave into personality forums like this one if they wanna change :P
    Make it bold and beautiful.

  9. #139
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atreasuredembrace View Post
    I've TONS of life experience behind me, and I have evolved from ENFP to ESFJ because of them. I really admire intuitives because I LOVEEEE ideas, and I wish we can live in our world of possibilities. But like all people promise, your dreams don't become reality unless you work hard for them or if your dreams don't come true, there's something better out there that we're not focused on.

    A lot of oppression, especially family expectations that don't make me happy, really affects me. Actually, the SLIGHTEST criticism and oppression affects me because it tells me I'm not doing my job/duty/role in life correctly.

    What keeps me in check is that I have to remember I'm not getting paid for this so I need to chill the eff out and relax, BREATHE, and ask myself how will others view me on this (because I value people's opinions and their thoughts of our reputation on me).

    I hope other ESFJs can read this one day.. maybe a few years down the line when they decide to cave into personality forums like this one if they wanna change :P
    Wow, we might be soulmates. You sound so similar to me. I was originally typed as an ENFP too. I've been told that I may actually be ESFJ, but I never felt like I fit into that category because of the "lack of independent thinking" streak that seems to be attached to the type. *shrug* Who knows what I really am. I, too, feel like my expectations from my family were burdensome to me, growing up. That was difficult because family is really important to me, and my natural inclination is to try to make everyone around me happy. I also recognized that ideologically, I was very different from a lot of people in my family, which left me feeling very isolated. I don't necessarily care that much what other people think of me if I've decided their values are different from mine, but in general, I really relate to a lot of what you are saying here.

  10. #140
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    This is something ive had much trouble with in the past and occasionally still do....it's like a mental block. It takes a great deal of willpower and experience to break through this block and break the harmony.
    Quote Originally Posted by atreasuredembrace View Post
    I totally agree with the speaking up part. As a ESFJ, I truly value peace in ALL situations, and when it's really necessary to state my needs, I literally forget about them because I place so much importance on the harmony because without that peace, I absolutely cannot function and then it's just emotional overload for everyone. I really admire that I am comfortable expressing emotion because I know that it's very hard for a lot of people to do so.
    I respect the strength of desire for harmony, but the point that I am trying to make is that in these cases, "harmony" isn't very harmonious - when everyone else can feel the unspoken tension, it is no longer harmony, even if no one has broken the ice. I think this may be some kind of Fi blindspot that Fe users have. When each individual in the room can feel the negativity intrapersonally, that's an effective loss of harmony too, even if all the interpersonal bonds are "harmonious". Once it gets to that point, there's essentially no reason to remain silent or even to remain in the situation. You might as well just speak up or leave, because you're influencing everyone negatively anyway, and you're creating an awkward stalemate where no one can speak freely, lest they become the scapegoat when they break the ice.

    A lot of SJs really do care about others wayyyy too much. We care about our world wayyyy too much. We wanna control it and mold it to our personal values so no one has to feel alone, no one has to feel sad, no one has to feel pain, no one has to feel ugly (I personally hate feeling ugly).
    This is why I love SJs.

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