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  1. #1
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Default ESTJs- How do you do it?

    I work with this guy who will blurt out wrong stuff without any kind of reasoning other than a little more than "it can't be or it has to be". I think it's TeSi?

    How often do you blurt out without really digging first?

  2. #2
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Well, it's bad when it's something negative or inaccurate, but it's good when it's something positive or accurate.

    This obviously can be hit or miss for them.

  3. #3
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    I work with this guy who will blurt out wrong stuff without any kind of reasoning other than a little more than "it can't be or it has to be". I think it's TeSi?

    How often do you blurt out without really digging first?
    The number of times we blurt out without digging is equal to the number of times we are asked about something we don't know much about. It's because we always have to have an opinion on everything. Uncertainty is our worst enemy and we avoid it at all cost, and therefore we form all of our opinions based on the information we have at the present moment.

    But on the bright side, we are actually really quick to change our minds. Our opinions are only valid until we find something that makes more sense, and when we find that, we switch the old one out almost instantly. I don't know about other ESTJs, but I have very few beliefs that I actually "hold dear", or care enough to hold on to instead of moving on to a more rational option (given the choice). We're really, really different from ISTJs in that regard (from my experience).
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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  4. #4
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    But on the bright side, we are actually really quick to change our minds. Our opinions are only valid until we find something that makes more sense, and when we find that, we switch the old one out almost instantly. I don't know about other ESTJs, but I have very few beliefs that I actually "hold dear", or care enough to hold on to instead of moving on to a more rational option (given the choice). We're really, really different from ISTJs in that regard (from my experience).
    This is true. I have seen my mother (ESTJ) do this, even with things she had believed strongly, and even if she has to put herself to shame, she will accept the better statement.
    Afterwards, she is so happy to share that she has found a better way. Do you know Joyce Meyer? Her sermons are all about that. I think she's ESTJ.

  5. #5
    Member Will2911's Avatar
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    I have to have an opinion on literally everything. I can't help it. Even if I know absolutley nothing about the subject. I am constantly fighting battles because of it.

    You're right in saying that when we find a better viewpoint than the one we took up, we do switch to the newer more rational position... Well some of the time, but usually I find it very hard to give up on something, I have this uncontrollable urge not to be wrong. I hate it, being wrong that is. I also can't admit I'm wrong, so often I find that I am defending the indefensible, much to other people's irritance.

    However as has been mentioned, if you ask us a question, we will invariably answer regardless to if we know anything about the subject matter or not.
    Last edited by Will2911; 09-02-2010 at 10:18 PM. Reason: Clarification

  6. #6
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    The number of times we blurt out without digging is equal to the number of times we are asked about something we don't know much about. It's because we always have to have an opinion on everything. Uncertainty is our worst enemy and we avoid it at all cost, and therefore we form all of our opinions based on the information we have at the present moment.

    But on the bright side, we are actually really quick to change our minds. Our opinions are only valid until we find something that makes more sense, and when we find that, we switch the old one out almost instantly. I don't know about other ESTJs, but I have very few beliefs that I actually "hold dear", or care enough to hold on to instead of moving on to a more rational option (given the choice). We're really, really different from ISTJs in that regard (from my experience).

    I like your answer- thanks! I will say that the 2 ESTJs I work with will have something to say about everything- even if they are clearly wrong or uneducated about the situation- that's what I can't stand. That and they are so convinced that they are right- that there only response is 'it can't be'- because of their understanding!

    I will say that both of them are quick to adopt the newer better way once they have been disproven. One even gets excited and he'll tell everyone about it. It's so funny.

    EJCC- I assume when you say you are different than ISTJs, you are saying that we are most likely to stay silent on an issue we don't know much about. I approach speculation very slowly, just thinking it through and making connections to what I already know. I too am quick to adopt a new way of thought when I have been convinced of the new way's superiority.

  7. #7
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will2911 View Post
    I have to have an opinion on literally everything. I can't help it. Even if I know absolutley nothing about the subject. I am constantly fighting battles because of it.

    You're right in saying that when we find a better viewpoint than the one we took up, we do switch to the newer more rational position... Well some of the time, but usually I find it very hard to give up on something, I have this uncontrollable urge not to be wrong. I hate it, being wrong that is. I also can't admit I'm wrong, so often I find that I am defending the indefensible, much to other people's irritance.

    However as has been mentioned, if you ask us a question, we will invariably answer regardless to if we know anything about the subject matter or not.

    I will say that is something else that kind of irks me. My former boss was ESTJ, and he would talk his way into a corner, and even when he's proven wrong he'll hold on to his opinion. Somewhere later down in the line he'll say something to show you his opinion's changed, but he won't admit he was wrong.

  8. #8
    Member Will2911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    I will say that is something else that kind of irks me. My former boss was ESTJ, and he would talk his way into a corner, and even when he's proven wrong he'll hold on to his opinion. Somewhere later down in the line he'll say something to show you his opinion's changed, but he won't admit he was wrong.
    Oh that's exactly what I do. I know it's annoying, I just can't help myself. I think a lot of us are like that, without even realising it.

  9. #9
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    To me when i am called out on the inaccuracy of my view point or stance or knowledge on something i will consider it first, if i found that your logically more coherent, i will come around to what you said in the first place and moderate whatever was inaccurate.

    However if i do have authority over you and you question the validity of my perspective which indirectly means my intelligence(especially publically) i find this disrespectful and i will be reluctant before i acknowledge your point and compromise my own viewpoint for accuracy, which would eventually happen later since i praise being truthful. This is also a matter of ego i think and humility. As an ESTJ i don't want my reputation to degrade by looking ignorant and stupid both publicly and on an interpersonal level, it's undermining.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  10. #10
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    That and they are so convinced that they are right- that there only response is 'it can't be'- because of their understanding!
    My only response is usually "Where did you hear that?" or "Do you have proof?" ...unless I know right away that they must be right, in which case I say "...Huh." But that's how we do things, I guess.
    EJCC- I assume when you say you are different than ISTJs, you are saying that we are most likely to stay silent on an issue we don't know much about. I approach speculation very slowly, just thinking it through and making connections to what I already know. I too am quick to adopt a new way of thought when I have been convinced of the new way's superiority.
    Oh, okay! I had actually meant that the ISTJs I've met seemed much harder to convince than ESTJs - kind of along the lines of ISFJs (who I can never convince of anything, ever) - but your bolded statement says otherwise. Whoops!
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

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