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[ESFJ] Are All ESFJs Like This?

heart

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I didn't know everyone loves to hate ESFJs. My sister-in-law is an ESFJ and I think she's wonderful. She's a hard worker, keeps a neat home, is a good listener, is generous, is always cheerful. I don't get what's the matter with that!


There are unhealthy examples of every type.
 

INTJMom

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There are unhealthy examples of every type.
Well sure, but I thought that this is a general description of most ESFJs. Therefore, I don't see how people can generally dislike them? I admire them.
 

heart

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Well sure, but I thought that this is a general description of most ESFJs. Therefore, I don't see how people can generally dislike them? I admire them.

I will be totally honest and admit that the people I have had the most difficulty with in my life, especially my early life, have been ESFJ who had abusive and controlling T shadows.
 

INTJMom

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I will be totally honest and admit that the people I have had the most difficulty with in my life, especially my early life, have been ESFJ who had abusive and controlling T shadows.
Ah. I have trouble with ESTJ women.
 

heart

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Ah. I have trouble with ESTJ women.


ESTJ are prone to have more of a problem with me than vice-versa but they don't seem to understand how best to get under my skin as the ESFJ do. So ESTJ are second type I am most often going to have difficulty with. ;)
 

Domino

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ESTJ are prone to have more of a problem with me than vice-versa but they don't seem to understand how best to get under my skin as the ESFJ do. So ESTJ are second type I am most often going to have difficulty with. ;)

This is the sort of thing I wondered about with certain types and their shadows.
 

cafe

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My kids' principal appears to be an ESFJ and we have bumped heads a couple of times. She tries her usual tactics on me, like trying to use her position of authority, trying to cast my motives in a negative light and hers in a positive light, appealing to conventions, etc, which I guess must work for her a lot of the time, but they do not work very well on me.

I don't think she means to be bad or even that she is bad, that's just how she normally operates in order to accomplish her (often positive) goals. I expect to be treated as an equal and I expect someone to be honest and level with me instead of the stuff she does. I'm really pretty easy to work with and I love harmony, but I hate bullying and I hate manipulation and I get difficult real fast when I perceive someone trying to play those cards with me. I almost feel a little sorry for her because she doesn't really know what to do with me.
 

Griffi97

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My kids' principal appears to be an ESFJ and we have bumped heads a couple of times. She tries her usual tactics on me, like trying to use her position of authority, trying to cast my motives in a negative light and hers in a positive light, appealing to conventions, etc, which I guess must work for her a lot of the time, but they do not work very well on me.

I don't think she means to be bad or even that she is bad, that's just how she normally operates in order to accomplish her (often positive) goals. I expect to be treated as an equal and I expect someone to be honest and level with me instead of the stuff she does. I'm really pretty easy to work with and I love harmony, but I hate bullying and I hate manipulation and I get difficult real fast when I perceive someone trying to play those cards with me. I almost feel a little sorry for her because she doesn't really know what to do with me.



My grandmother was an ESFJ, probably not a very healthy one, and this sounds very familiar. She loved me like a daughter and I owe her a great deal, but she wanted to control everything I did. In particular, she wanted me to spend all my time with her and she was jealous of anyone else I spent time with, including my mother! :huh: If I didn't do exactly what she wanted me to, she'd pretend to cry in front of me, talk about me on the phone to her friends in front of me as if I wasn't there, etc. Her list of manipulation techniques was exhaustive, and they were all pretty much ineffective on me.
 

proteanmix

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So this has turned into the ESFJ bitching thread.

Mission accomplished, ImNotTooPopular.:nice:
 

Athenian200

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All we have is this dude's biased perspective of this woman. To even say that she's unhealthy gives credence to his story. These types of threads annoy the holy hell out of me. And since the person is an ESFJ, everyone's favorite type to hate, that makes it all the more better.

There are a number of threads here asking for help dealing with different types that come in the attitude of sincerely wanting to understand and work through problems. ImNotTooPopular, you just wanted to start a bitchfest and have people jump on the bandwagon with you. Don't enable this guy.

All I said that was based on the story, her behavior was unhealthy. I never said I trusted his story to be completely accurate, impartial, or without miscommunication. I mean come on... he's an INTP, talking about an ESFJ no less. What did you expect? ;)

I didn't mean to be an enabler, but I figured that if we talked to him, he might give us more context to explain why he felt the way he did, and whether there was actually anything wrong with her. We could very well be defining what a normal ESFJ is supposed to be, so that people will know that this isn't what all of them act like.

We could take lemons, and make lemonade.
 

miss fortune

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amazing! you're complaining about this chick being so judgemental and then you turn around and do the same thing to her yourself! :shock:

If you don't like someone just don't associate with them- if forced to associate with them, then manipulate her as well- 2 can play that game :rolli:

I know some good ESFJs and some bad ESFJs- the good ones I absolutley adore, the bad ones I tend to make more miserable than they make me! :devil:

You've just got to learn to be less hypocritical yourself and to take your life into your own hands- don't just sit around and whine about the fact that you don't like this chick and list all kinds of things that you dislike about her (relevant or not) DO SOMETHING! ;)
 

proteanmix

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Athenian, I understand that you're trying to be sympathetic and I applaud that. But don't you know the ending to this story? Do you think he made that post to get some insight or to vent? I hope you don't run out of sugar before you finish that lemonade. He's been back to the thread since the OP and didn't clarify. Aelan gave some very helpful suggestions so we can have more to work with. Wandering clearly (IMO) explained the problems with the OP and still there is no clarification of the OP's intent.

The most popular thread concerning ESFJs is how to tell one to "fuck off."
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/sj-guardhouse/1302-telling-thick-esfj-fuck-off-nicely.html Not even counting disparate posts here and there complaining about a random ESFJ here and there. If this person is having a problem with a particular ESFJ, fine, NO PROBLEM. But why attribute the behavior the annoying behavior of one ESFJ to all ESFJs, especially when you audience is mostly INs who don't often get along with the ESs in their life?

I think this is an excellent example of a person who came in not condemning and ranting against this particular type, but trying to understand. http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...-help-me-understand-respect-my-isfj-mate.html
 

Mycroft

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I've noticed that, in general, INTPs seem to revile their shadow type more than the other types do.

(Admittedly the population sample around here is skewed, though, possibly simply giving that impression.)
 

proteanmix

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I've noticed that, in general, INTPs seem to revile their shadow type more than the other types do.

(Admittedly the population sample around here is skewed, though, possibly simply giving that impression.)

I noticed that as well. I just can't scrounge up the hate towards ISTPs that INTPs feel towards ESFJs. I actually get along well with the ISTPs (and those charming scoundrels ESTPs) I know and enjoy them very much.
 

Zergling

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I wonder how much INFP's and INFJ's have trouble with their opposites, ESFJ does seem a type where the bad sides will be more obvious than average, which may account for part of the dislike that seems to show.
 

INTJMom

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Apparently, proteanmix, you've had about all you can take of ESFJ bashing. Personally, I think there are plenty of types that can exhibit the behavior the OP complained about. And to be completely honest, I don't really believe she IS an ESFJ.

But I do know how it feels to be jabbered at incessantly by someone who can't stop talking long enough to allow me to participate in the conversation, all the while being forced by societal duty to pretend I'm enjoying myself!
 

Jae Rae

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Perhaps it's easier for an E to ignore an I than vice versa. [smile.]

A less glib answer might be to consider the youth of many of the posters on this forum. We tend to mellow as we age, and learn better strategies for getting along with or disregarding people we don't like. Many of the posters are NTs, therefore it follows they have the strongest opinions about their SF opposites.

Jae Rae
 

proteanmix

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But I do know how it feels to be jabbered at incessantly by someone who can't stop talking long enough to allow me to participate in the conversation, all the while being forced by societal duty to pretend I'm enjoying myself!

I do too, and considering that I'm Fe-dominant the pressure to respond politely and courteously is probably stronger with me than it is on you. In fact a person like that sits two cubes away from me at work. But when I find myself in situation like that I try to take my weakness and turn it into a strength by politely excusing myself the person if it's a short term contact, or if it's someone I have to see daily finding a way to get along with them, and if that can't be found avoiding them. There's always a way to deal with someone and I'm quite exhaustive in my search to find it.
 

cafe

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Mm hmm. There are ways of working with/around people you have personality conflicts with. I've talked to my ISFJ sister-in-law and some of the folks at the school to get in-put and perspective on my problem with the ESFJ. I wanted to know how much of the problem is me, if the problem is just with me, etc. At the moment, my strategy is to give her space. When I do encounter her, I try to be as positive as I can, showing appreciation for her hard work because she does work very hard. But if she starts with the tactics that I dislike, I just don't play. I, gently as possible, call her on it and get things on a more honest footing, then work from there. I will say again, I don't think she's a bad person. We just have a conflict.
 

INTJMom

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I do too, and considering that I'm Fe-dominant the pressure to respond politely and courteously is probably stronger with me than it is on you. In fact a person like that sits two cubes away from me at work. But when I find myself in situation like that I try to take my weakness and turn it into a strength by politely excusing myself the person if it's a short term contact, or if it's someone I have to see daily finding a way to get along with them, and if that can't be found avoiding them. There's always a way to deal with someone and I'm quite exhaustive in my search to find it.
I quite agree with you, but sometimes a person just needs to vent and get his frustration off his chest and have people validate his feelings. Once a person feels validated, it's easier to ask for or accept advice on how to "fix it".

Usually a person already knows what to do, it's just the need to have someone understand how he feels first, that can be important. That's how I took it anyway, but I entirely agree with you that he can't continue in this state of mind. He will have to find a way to deal.
 
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