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  1. #51
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    There's an easy way to avoid the ride home thing, give her a ride home and discuss some really dry philosophy the whole way, if she tries to change the subject don't let her. Maybe she's be so bored she won't ask again.

  2. #52
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    ...having said all of that (my previous post), I do sympathize with people who get on the receiving end of bad Fe from unhealthy ESFJ's... it's because I experienced that so many times myself that I had so many issues with ESFJ's before I had my li'l epiphany and figured out why it's worth it.

    To be fair, although the OP doesn't give enough information for us to agree wholesale with the judgement, it also doesn't give us enough to disagree as strongly as some people are, or to judge ImNotTooPopular quite as harshly as some people are. Yes, I do think there are better ways of handling the problem than bitching on a forum, and yeah, INTPc would probably have been a better place to do it, if at all.

    But like I say, if this person genuinely is getting a lot of bad ESFJ attention, then I can understand the need to bitch... and I can also understand not wording the OP properly... I've done it myself in the past, a hasty rant that hasn't given enough information, then having to scramble to retroactively fill in the blanks when the judgements about me start pouring in... it can be quite distressing when someone's already very stressed, to add more misunderstanding and judgement into the scene.

    If I were going to judge (though I'm not, this is just "if pushed to it") ImNotTooPopular from the OP and this thread, I'd say the person is probably young, hasty, inexperienced, stressed out and somewhat socially inept. And a bit arrogant. Those, to me, aren't qualities that I can hate someone for... I sympathize with them more than anything else, and thinking about myself both now and in former stages of my life, I can relate to them!! But then, that's me... always looking for the root cause rather than bang my head against the symptom.

    ImNotTooPopular - why do you find it so stressful to have someone talk to you about mundane things? I do find that quite hard to understand... she's probably just trying to be your friend...

    Why is your automatic response to her asking for a ride home an emphatic no? Is it simple impatience? Can you not bear to just smile and nod and tune her out for a few minutes so as to help a fellow human being? Or better yet, reciprocate with some mundane stuff of your own? Can you not understand that someone arbitrarily refusing to give someone a ride does make them look mean?

    I know an ISFJ girl who refuses to give rides to people she doesn't like, purely for that reason. She will say 'no' to someone even when the place they want a ride to is directly on the route she's taking anyway, and she gives lame excuses about how she wants to take a different route so as to avoid this or that set of traffic lights, and lets someone walk home in the dark and cold. It makes her look really petty and selfish... most decent and mature people can usually manage to grit their teeth through a car journey so as not to be an asshole... I know when I do that - give rides to people I'm not too fond of - it's not really for them but my own self-respect that I do it, cos I know if I let myself be petty about it, I'll lose some of my self-respect.

    Could it be that because you lack the motivation, for some reason, to tell her openly that you don't appreciate her chatter, and to ask her to leave you in peace, you're resorting to passive aggression to get your own back at her for something she doesn't even know she's doing wrong?
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  3. #53
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    The more you guys pick on ImNotTooPopular, the more sorry I feel for him.
    It's like almost everyone is bullying him.
    Sure the OP came across as young, arrogant and judgmental. Most people do when they're frustrated. He came in here looking to have his frustration validated, and instead he's getting is a lecture about what a horrible person he is.
    How would YOU feel?

    It's not really fair for people to expect an INTP to not be frustrated with that particular person.
    People who talk too much and impose themselves in your life without respecting the boundaries are considered rude by all people everywhere! Nowhere in the rule books of polite society does it say "feel free to talk too much about whatever gushes to your mind, and oh, make sure you don't breathe, so the other person can't get a word in edgewise." Pardon me, but that is NOT a formula for success in life.

    Maybe folks would do better to imagine how he feels when this person does this to him, and perhaps offer a little bit of understanding and validation of his feelings. Try to overlook the fact that he was a little coarse in the presentation of his feelings and point of view. Isn't that what you want people to do for you, when you are ranting and raving?

    Maybe it's just an INTx thing. Because I get it.

  4. #54
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    ...
    Could it be that because you lack the motivation, for some reason, to tell her openly that you don't appreciate her chatter, and to ask her to leave you in peace, you're resorting to passive aggression to get your own back at her for something she doesn't even know she's doing wrong?
    This is a good point but some people have a hard time with this. I know I do. A lot of it has to do with my upbringing.

    If I don't have a planned response already decided upon ahead of time, I'm surely not going to come up with it on the spur of the moment. These are techniques people have to learn. At least I do.

  5. #55
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I do too, and considering that I'm Fe-dominant the pressure to respond politely and courteously is probably stronger with me than it is on you. In fact a person like that sits two cubes away from me at work. But when I find myself in situation like that I try to take my weakness and turn it into a strength by politely excusing myself the person if it's a short term contact, or if it's someone I have to see daily finding a way to get along with them, and if that can't be found avoiding them. There's always a way to deal with someone and I'm quite exhaustive in my search to find it.
    I entirely agree with you, but it appears to me that this is a new situation in his life, and he hasn't had time to work up a strategy yet. He's still in phase one where he realizes he's frustrated.

    But I entirely agree with you that he will have to work out one of the strategies you suggest, or a combination, in order to keep his peace of mind.

  6. #56
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImNotTooPopular View Post
    ... Maybe she's right when she says I'm rude, but I'm an INTP. DEAL WITH IT!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering View Post
    ...And maybe you're right when you say she's annoying, but she's an ESFJ. DEAL WITH IT TOO!
    Well, look at that. Who would have thought it goes both ways?

    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    Furthermore, BMI has nothing to do with MBTI.
    Oh, this is a tagline waiting to happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I've noticed that, in general, INTPs seem to revile their shadow type more than the other types do.
    Oh, GREAT -- don't go dragging all the INTPs into this now!

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I do too, and considering that I'm Fe-dominant the pressure to respond politely and courteously is probably stronger with me than it is on you. In fact a person like that sits two cubes away from me at work. But when I find myself in situation like that I try to take my weakness and turn it into a strength by politely excusing myself the person if it's a short term contact, or if it's someone I have to see daily finding a way to get along with them, and if that can't be found avoiding them. There's always a way to deal with someone and I'm quite exhaustive in my search to find it.
    The process you describe is effective and responsible... and also not very easy for some types to practice, if they're naturally flexers, more passive, not good with closure, etc. Definitely it is a skill for people of all types to learn, but to have to act that way to deal with that sort of person causes anxiety/exhaustion.

    (This is probably why IP types are prone to come here and bitch about EJ types, rather than just dealing with the problem. The IP will internalize and keep flexing and want the EJ to stop...and the EJ won't stop, because they don't realize they are violating the IP's boundaries, until the IP pushes back in EJ fashion. And usually at that point the IP is furious and in no mood to be kind. In contrast, if EJs have a problem with IPs, they have no trouble taking the bull by the horns and resolving it straightaway; they don't need to go have a gripefest instead.)

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    this is like saying that Hitler may be one of the most popular people in history since the history channel and historians have so many shows and books about him
    Very nice -- we made it Post #46 before Godwin's Law was introduced.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #57
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    There's an easy way to avoid the ride home thing, give her a ride home and discuss some really dry philosophy the whole way, if she tries to change the subject don't let her. Maybe she's be so bored she won't ask again.
    You are so naughty!

    Great idea!

  8. #58
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    I've been reading the replies (yes *gasp* ALL of them!) and I have to say

    1) I don't see what's so bad with ESFJ's. I couldn't even tell you how ESFJs 'typically act'. I have not identified anyone in my life as ESFJ, I probably know some, I'm just not aware of their type

    2) OP, I'm sure it has sunk in that people (in general) don't like type bashing here and people are very aware and on the look out for bias and stereotype. (INTPs greatly outnumber us poor EPs and EJs y'know.)

    So let's move on to:

    3) The woman's behavior doesn't sounds 'unhealthy'' or outrageous to me. She's a young chatty girl. Big deal. You work in retail right? Welcome to your working life, until you change jobs. Retail sales is full of teenaged and young women who are chatty, extroverted, and like to talk a lot of chit chat. That's why they are in retail.

    If you can't stand that, I would suggest moving to inventory, warehouse, or shipping/receiving. They are pretty much lateral moves from retail sales.

    I worked full-time retail after college and was the oldest non-management employee and the only one to have completed my schooling. Everyone else was college age and younger and the maturity level showed that. This isn't a diss to them, hell I'm pretty good with fittin in with youngins and overall I appreciated the experience.

    But man people bitched and moaned and 1/2 the store didn't want to work and had this very off-putting arrogance in regards to different personality types that is only born from the ignorance of youth. 1/2 the employees never took responsibility for their actions and attitudes (including when they were caught stealing) and would only blame other people.

    Anyhow, it seems to me this girl who you find annoying is your peer.

    She seems very light-hearted and jokey and if you can bring yourself to be jokey back to her you can comfortably get out of giving her rides, etc. Or every time she tries to talk to you, you can listen for a minute and then say, "Sorry, I have to restock the shelves/clean the store/check the display etc."

    If you don't let her know that you don't want her talking to you, you can't blame her for continuing to talk to you. It's your responsbility to let people know they are overstepping your boundaries, otherwise it's your problem not theirs. Otherwise, you'll continue to be annoyed with no end in sight. And if she's not doing something intentionally to harass you, can you really blame her for anything? She has no idea that you don't like her behavior.

  9. #59
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    This is a good point but some people have a hard time with this. I know I do. A lot of it has to do with my upbringing.

    If I don't have a planned response already decided upon ahead of time, I'm surely not going to come up with it on the spur of the moment. These are techniques people have to learn. At least I do.
    Yes, I know, I understand and sympathize with that, I was just asking for more details and facts about the situation before launching off on an advice gig that might turn out to be totally bum. It was a genuine enquiry, not a sarky, rhetorical question. Because I agree (and basically said before you lol ) with what you said about people being overly harsh.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  10. #60
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Yes, I know, I understand and sympathize with that, I was just asking for more details and facts about the situation before launching off on an advice gig that might turn out to be totally bum. It was a genuine enquiry, not a sarky, rhetorical question. Because I agree (and basically said before you lol ) with what you said about people being overly harsh.
    WELL! SOMEbody's just a little cheeky today!


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