[ESFJ] Are All ESFJs Like This?

[FFF]

It used to seem to me - and still sometimes does - that some introverts really just want to have a talking mirror... they want someone just like them to basically say out loud to them all the things they already think (because it's soooo much effort for them to say it themselves), so they can nod and say "I agree! I totally agree!" and then say to themselves "Wow this person is awesome!" Which... well, y'know, shows extraverts or SJ's aren't the only ones who can create an (often false) image of self-centred egotism.

Just a li'l perspective there from an extravert, on this introvert dominated board, to say, c'mon, it's not all roses looking from the other side either!!

I like a lot of your comments, Sub, even if I'm not responding to them.

I'm not looking for someone to say the exact same things I think, but I'm dying for someone who can actually talk about abstract ideas rather than other people and pop culture and stupid stuff like that. There was a cashier who was like that. I took a week off, and she was gone when I came back. That's the only time I would ever bag groceries rather than doing my job, so I could talk to a cashier.

 

[INTJMom]

...
Even just releasing details that shouldn't be released. Now I know that another female coworker has been on her period for a month straight. My response to ESFJ girl saying that was, "Do you think she wants you telling everybody that?"

That's just gross, and highly inappropriate, especially telling it to the opposite sex. Maybe she's got some issue like Asperger's or something?

As my kids would complain: "Too much information!"

And thanks for sticking up for the other girl. Poor thing. I hate gossip.

 

[FFF]

In spite of what others' have said, I can't muster any sympathy for you. That "fat" attack was pretty nasty and I think you knew it when you posted. No one's that socially daft.

She's fat. It's a fact. Pull out the BMI if you want and get her height and weight. You can expect certain cruel treatmeant in this country if you're overweight, especially during certain stages in life such as childhood and high school. Such cruel treatment has an effect on you. Do I have to look for scientific studies on this to some sort of agreement here?

Also, I associate being overweight with being self-unconscious being that the three girls I know that are self-unconscious are overweight. I'd say they're all extroverts too. It's like a defense mechanism they use to get by, and I find it highly annoying. Perhaps there's another name for it, but that is what I call it.

 

[miss fortune]

yes- EPs together DO go into a flurry of talking! people are terrified at times to be stuck with my sis and me together!

quit moving the bags of sugar then- manipulations only work if the other person complies


pop culture and other people ARE interesting topics! that's the way that some of us connect with people we don't know all that well- a nice neutral topic like pop culture or people that we both know is a good starter!

Maybe she doesn't understand you the best, but it's a two way street- you need to quit letting yourself fall for manipulations and you need to try and understand her better as well, because it sounds to me like you DON'T understand her well at all!

 

[FFF]

That's just gross, and highly inappropriate, especially telling it to the opposite sex. Maybe she's got some issue like Asperger's or something?

As my kids would complain: "Too much information!"

And thanks for sticking up for the other girl. Poor thing. I hate gossip.

Well, it was like she was trying to tell everybody that and just that. She was talking about her period or periods in general when she decided to bring that up in front of me while talking to someone else.

 

[alcea rosea]

She's fat. It's a fact. Pull out the BMI if you want and get her height and weight. You can expect certain cruel treatmeant in this country if you're overweight, especially during certain stages in life such as childhood and high school. Such cruel treatment has an effect on you. Do I have to look for scientific studies on this to some sort of agreement here?

Also, I associate being overweight with being self-unconscious being that the three girls I know that are self-unconscious are overweight. I'd say they're all extroverts too. It's like a defense mechanism they use to get by, and I find it highly annoying. Perhaps there's another name for it, but that is what I call it.

I found this post

 

[FFF]

quit moving the bags of sugar then- manipulations only work if the other person complies

I didn't move the bags of sugar.

I guess I did move some non-literal bags of sugar, though, but they weren't that big of a deal. I really didn't want to move the sugar cause my back hurt and still does.

 

[INTJMom]

...
It used to seem to me - and still sometimes does - that some introverts really just want to have a talking mirror... they want someone just like them to basically say out loud to them all the things they already think...

I read somewhere that INTJs prefer a homogenous group, though I don't know the motive behind it.
Perhaps INTPs are similar in that.

I don't think it's fair to condemn a whole group of people for something they can't change.

I understand your frustration. Sorry we're so frustrating to you. Each type has those things they are irked by.

 

[Totenkindly]

...If that's supposed to make me think "poor you", then it has failed abysmally, to say the least

Hmmm. Well, this'll teach him ... he either will never post anything of the sort again, after having to read such an extensive blow-by-blow description of the personal impact it made on you... or he's impervious to such things anyway and just doesn't give a flying fig either way.

It's not that I necessarily disagree with you (because, yes, I think it was bad form of him and an unfair/bad attitude)... but ... this is a bit laborious, don't you think? Like beating the horse until there's nothing left but a gooey greasy spot on the ground?

What is the actual positive resolution here that this extensive, negative analysis is contributing towards? I think the goal should define the discussion. We're not trying to resolve your feelings here... they aren't the issue.

In that sense, INTJMom probably has the right idea, in the need to ease up. He's already been slapped silly, we don't need to belabor the point, I think he got it. Continual beating just defeats the purpose.

(This is me wearing my "member" hat, btw...)

 

[Domino]

I found this post

Same here.

 

[proteanmix]

He's not climbing out the hole he created with his posts...

I agree wholeheartedly with what Wandering said. I liken it to when INTPs do a blow by blow dissection of someone's treasured idea. She just dissected what was wrong with his OP and his behavior based on the information he's given us in the thread.

ImNotTooPopular, how did you expect people to respond to this thread? What was your purpose in creating it? I'd say your popularity is increasing leaps and bounds right now.

 

[Domino]

He's not climbing out the hole he created with his posts...

I agree wholeheartedly with what Wandering said. I liken it to when INTPs do a blow by blow dissection of someone's treasured idea. She just dissected what was wrong with his OP and his behavior based on the information he's given us in the thread.

Agreed.

ImNotTooPopular, how did you expect people to respond to this thread? What was your purpose in creating it? I'd say your popularity is increasing leaps and bounds right now.

I'm stunned that others are shocked by the deep offense some of us have taken to his bigoted language. Strong offense was EASILY a possibility with his OP. Not taking his side hardly constitutes "ganging up" on him. We have our valid opinions as well. Emilio Estevez said to Ally Sheedy in "The Breakfast Club" that she gets what she gets when she dumped out the contents of her purse and invited others into her mess.

I have no sympathy for him. I don't care how repellent the woman in question is. He's proven to be just as unpleasant. End of story.

 

[miss fortune]

I agree with Pink! I'm generally prepared to take the fall if I post something that can be considered rude and bitchy- I'm (wo)man enough to take it! I don't think that anyone should dish out something they can't eat themselves. Sure- there are unpleasant people out there, but are you going to make it all better by being unpleasant yourself? Maybe if it's aimed at them directly, but being unpleasant towards her here isn't helping you in any manner- it's not getting anything done AND it's making some of us mad at you!

sorry- but bringing other issues like body type into your complaints was basically an act of digging your own grave- it's a really good way to offend people- you might want to keep that in mind for future use Some of us have overweight friends, some of whom are ESFJs, who we adore dearly!

 

[Totenkindly]

I agree wholeheartedly with what Wandering said. I liken it to when INTPs do a blow by blow dissection of someone's treasured idea. She just dissected what was wrong with his OP and his behavior based on the information he's given us in the thread.

And I am just as irritated when an INTP does it, in a situation where it does not contribute to a positive outcome. Context is essential.

So let's (1) determine the goal, and then (2) determine what behavior helps us reach our goal.

ImNotTooPopular, how did you expect people to respond to this thread? What was your purpose in creating it? I'd say your popularity is increasing leaps and bounds right now.

This was a question that would have been excellent... if it had been asked before the horse had been beaten into the ground.

I'm stunned that others are shocked by the deep offense some of us have taken to his bigoted language. Strong offense was EASILY a possibility with his OP. Not taking his side hardly constitutes "ganging up" on him. We have our valid opinions as well. ...

None of that is disputed. But it's hardly an excuse to justify what amounts to group retaliation.

This is rather ironic: We're a full-range MBTI forum, so y'all seeing what happens when different types butt heads on equal footing... and somehow we have to resolve this without slighting any particular type. Hmmm.

Which I'm at a loss to do. Because I found the OP immature and naive, but in case you did not notice I'm actually very offended by the ExFJ bloodthirst going on right now. You're on a moral rampage (imo), and I really REALLY would desire a more balanced approach that takes care of everyone's needs... not just yours.

 

[alcea rosea]

How it seems this thread is about F-T difference?

 

[Randomnity]

I'm stunned that others are shocked by the deep offense some of us have taken to his bigoted language. Strong offense was EASILY a possibility with his OP. Not taking his side hardly constitutes "ganging up" on him. We have our valid opinions as well. Emilio Estevez said to Ally Sheedy in "The Breakfast Club" that she gets what she gets when she dumped out the contents of her purse and invited others into her mess.

I have no sympathy for him. I don't care how repellent the woman in question is. He's proven to be just as unpleasant. End of story.

I agree completely.

 

[miss fortune]

but it's so fun to beat a dead horse, and it's such a good workout for my upper body muscles to weild my shillelagh for the purpose of dead horse pulping!

rofl1: I really wanted an excuse to use the word shillelagh today for some odd reason! )

 

[cascadeco]

Hehe..although I'm coming into this after the horse has been beaten.... (you know, another forum I'm a part of has a 'Beating a dead horse' emoticon...it's a shame it's not here!

This is what I notice about the OP:

1. No, not every ESFJ is like this,
2. You don't like this woman, and you don't have to like this woman. That's fine that you don't like her. From your descriptions, I probably wouldn't care for her. But I also know you're just presenting one side of the situation - who knows how this woman has perceived YOUR behavior, or even whether you're reading her intentions accurately??
3. You seem to expect others to cater to your needs (i.e. your interests, your beliefs, your behaviors), but you have no level of acceptance for the other persons' behaviors. What could possibly motivate them to react in favorable ways towards you (and what would motivate them to want to get to know the real you?) if you don't react favorably/positively towards them? Or at the very least, neutral?
4. The tone of the OP makes me smile - just the irony of all of it. She's judging you, you're judging her...seems like an even match!!
5. I understand the need to have 'deeper' conversations, as I experience similar things. But unfortunately not everyone operates this way, and as I'm sure you know, you're not going to experience a 'deep' conversation with everyone you meet. But there does have to be some give and take, and I think an awareness that everyone IS different. Also recognizing that you're having an issue with a couple of people at work --> doesn't mean it equates at all to ESFJ's as a whole. Seems like you have lots of expectations of others. You're experiencing disconnect, or a lack of connection as you'd like, so you're casting all the blame on everyone else, rather than maybe letting go of the expectations and seeking other outlets (outside of work?) for your deeper conversations. Or whatever.

 

[Wandering]

She's fat. It's a fact.

It's an IRRELEVANT fact. That's my point: this fact is totally irrelevant to the rest of your post, because from what I understand, you would have just as much of a problem with that girl if she weren't fat. So why mention that she's fat at all?? The only way this information is relevant to your OP is in the way I mentioned: to easily and quickly designate her as the baddie.

Or are you saying that you are especially annoyed at her behaviour because she's fat ?

Also, I associate being overweight with being self-unconscious being that the three girls I know that are self-unconscious are overweight. I'd say they're all extroverts too.

Logical error: A implies B, does not imply that B implies A. You might have associated being self-unconscious with being overweight, but that doesn't mean that all overweight girls are self-unconscious. In fact, in reality, most fat girls are more self-conscious than average.

Moreover, I have problems believing that 1) you know only 3 self-unconscious girls, and 2) they all happen to be overweight. That's a bit too much of a coincidence, don't you think? Could it be that you only noticed their self-unconsciousness precisely because they are overweight and thus far more visible? I've had stuff like that happen to me more times than I care to remember.

What is the actual positive resolution here that this extensive, negative analysis is contributing towards? I think the goal should define the discussion. We're not trying to resolve your feelings here... they aren't the issue.

Wow, major misunderstanding here! My bad for not explaining my intent.

My post was not about me and my poor feelings: it was about the message I got from the OP and the effect it had on me. And the purpose of it, believe it or not, was to help ImNotTooPopular understand where I was coming from. That post was prompted by Sub's remark that some people were being quite harsh on ImNot: I wanted to explain why I was being so harsh. I was trying to show the mechanism of my irritation. I was hoping to help ImNot deal with Feelers, by understanding how some of us work.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. Again, my bad.

 

[Zergling]

I saw this post as similar to stuff I hear day to day, where someone goes on a random gossip rant on some other person, talking about the other person's ugly hair, annoying talk about their brother, how they just sit there and don't work, blah, blah... (for a made up on the spot example, there are lots of variations.)

I don't see these as worthwhile to listen to, or worthwhile to read on a forum, and the ESFJ bit does not belong on an all MBTI types forum.