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  1. #31
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    amazing! you're complaining about this chick being so judgemental and then you turn around and do the same thing to her yourself!

    If you don't like someone just don't associate with them- if forced to associate with them, then manipulate her as well- 2 can play that game :rolli:

    I know some good ESFJs and some bad ESFJs- the good ones I absolutley adore, the bad ones I tend to make more miserable than they make me!

    You've just got to learn to be less hypocritical yourself and to take your life into your own hands- don't just sit around and whine about the fact that you don't like this chick and list all kinds of things that you dislike about her (relevant or not) DO SOMETHING!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  2. #32
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Athenian, I understand that you're trying to be sympathetic and I applaud that. But don't you know the ending to this story? Do you think he made that post to get some insight or to vent? I hope you don't run out of sugar before you finish that lemonade. He's been back to the thread since the OP and didn't clarify. Aelan gave some very helpful suggestions so we can have more to work with. Wandering clearly (IMO) explained the problems with the OP and still there is no clarification of the OP's intent.

    The most popular thread concerning ESFJs is how to tell one to "fuck off."
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ff-nicely.html Not even counting disparate posts here and there complaining about a random ESFJ here and there. If this person is having a problem with a particular ESFJ, fine, NO PROBLEM. But why attribute the behavior the annoying behavior of one ESFJ to all ESFJs, especially when you audience is mostly INs who don't often get along with the ESs in their life?

    I think this is an excellent example of a person who came in not condemning and ranting against this particular type, but trying to understand. http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...isfj-mate.html
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
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  3. #33
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    I've noticed that, in general, INTPs seem to revile their shadow type more than the other types do.

    (Admittedly the population sample around here is skewed, though, possibly simply giving that impression.)

  4. #34
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I've noticed that, in general, INTPs seem to revile their shadow type more than the other types do.

    (Admittedly the population sample around here is skewed, though, possibly simply giving that impression.)
    I noticed that as well. I just can't scrounge up the hate towards ISTPs that INTPs feel towards ESFJs. I actually get along well with the ISTPs (and those charming scoundrels ESTPs) I know and enjoy them very much.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  5. #35
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    I wonder how much INFP's and INFJ's have trouble with their opposites, ESFJ does seem a type where the bad sides will be more obvious than average, which may account for part of the dislike that seems to show.

  6. #36
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Apparently, proteanmix, you've had about all you can take of ESFJ bashing. Personally, I think there are plenty of types that can exhibit the behavior the OP complained about. And to be completely honest, I don't really believe she IS an ESFJ.

    But I do know how it feels to be jabbered at incessantly by someone who can't stop talking long enough to allow me to participate in the conversation, all the while being forced by societal duty to pretend I'm enjoying myself!

  7. #37
    Free-Rangin' Librarian Jae Rae's Avatar
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    Perhaps it's easier for an E to ignore an I than vice versa. [smile.]

    A less glib answer might be to consider the youth of many of the posters on this forum. We tend to mellow as we age, and learn better strategies for getting along with or disregarding people we don't like. Many of the posters are NTs, therefore it follows they have the strongest opinions about their SF opposites.

    Jae Rae
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  8. #38
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    But I do know how it feels to be jabbered at incessantly by someone who can't stop talking long enough to allow me to participate in the conversation, all the while being forced by societal duty to pretend I'm enjoying myself!
    I do too, and considering that I'm Fe-dominant the pressure to respond politely and courteously is probably stronger with me than it is on you. In fact a person like that sits two cubes away from me at work. But when I find myself in situation like that I try to take my weakness and turn it into a strength by politely excusing myself the person if it's a short term contact, or if it's someone I have to see daily finding a way to get along with them, and if that can't be found avoiding them. There's always a way to deal with someone and I'm quite exhaustive in my search to find it.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  9. #39
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Mm hmm. There are ways of working with/around people you have personality conflicts with. I've talked to my ISFJ sister-in-law and some of the folks at the school to get in-put and perspective on my problem with the ESFJ. I wanted to know how much of the problem is me, if the problem is just with me, etc. At the moment, my strategy is to give her space. When I do encounter her, I try to be as positive as I can, showing appreciation for her hard work because she does work very hard. But if she starts with the tactics that I dislike, I just don't play. I, gently as possible, call her on it and get things on a more honest footing, then work from there. I will say again, I don't think she's a bad person. We just have a conflict.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  10. #40
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I do too, and considering that I'm Fe-dominant the pressure to respond politely and courteously is probably stronger with me than it is on you. In fact a person like that sits two cubes away from me at work. But when I find myself in situation like that I try to take my weakness and turn it into a strength by politely excusing myself the person if it's a short term contact, or if it's someone I have to see daily finding a way to get along with them, and if that can't be found avoiding them. There's always a way to deal with someone and I'm quite exhaustive in my search to find it.
    I quite agree with you, but sometimes a person just needs to vent and get his frustration off his chest and have people validate his feelings. Once a person feels validated, it's easier to ask for or accept advice on how to "fix it".

    Usually a person already knows what to do, it's just the need to have someone understand how he feels first, that can be important. That's how I took it anyway, but I entirely agree with you that he can't continue in this state of mind. He will have to find a way to deal.

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