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  1. #21
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I didn't know everyone loves to hate ESFJs. My sister-in-law is an ESFJ and I think she's wonderful. She's a hard worker, keeps a neat home, is a good listener, is generous, is always cheerful. I don't get what's the matter with that!

    There are unhealthy examples of every type.

  2. #22
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    There are unhealthy examples of every type.
    Well sure, but I thought that this is a general description of most ESFJs. Therefore, I don't see how people can generally dislike them? I admire them.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Well sure, but I thought that this is a general description of most ESFJs. Therefore, I don't see how people can generally dislike them? I admire them.
    I will be totally honest and admit that the people I have had the most difficulty with in my life, especially my early life, have been ESFJ who had abusive and controlling T shadows.

  4. #24
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I will be totally honest and admit that the people I have had the most difficulty with in my life, especially my early life, have been ESFJ who had abusive and controlling T shadows.
    Ah. I have trouble with ESTJ women.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Ah. I have trouble with ESTJ women.

    ESTJ are prone to have more of a problem with me than vice-versa but they don't seem to understand how best to get under my skin as the ESFJ do. So ESTJ are second type I am most often going to have difficulty with.

  6. #26
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    ESTJ are prone to have more of a problem with me than vice-versa but they don't seem to understand how best to get under my skin as the ESFJ do. So ESTJ are second type I am most often going to have difficulty with.
    This is the sort of thing I wondered about with certain types and their shadows.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  7. #27
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    My kids' principal appears to be an ESFJ and we have bumped heads a couple of times. She tries her usual tactics on me, like trying to use her position of authority, trying to cast my motives in a negative light and hers in a positive light, appealing to conventions, etc, which I guess must work for her a lot of the time, but they do not work very well on me.

    I don't think she means to be bad or even that she is bad, that's just how she normally operates in order to accomplish her (often positive) goals. I expect to be treated as an equal and I expect someone to be honest and level with me instead of the stuff she does. I'm really pretty easy to work with and I love harmony, but I hate bullying and I hate manipulation and I get difficult real fast when I perceive someone trying to play those cards with me. I almost feel a little sorry for her because she doesn't really know what to do with me.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #28
    Senior Member Griffi97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    My kids' principal appears to be an ESFJ and we have bumped heads a couple of times. She tries her usual tactics on me, like trying to use her position of authority, trying to cast my motives in a negative light and hers in a positive light, appealing to conventions, etc, which I guess must work for her a lot of the time, but they do not work very well on me.

    I don't think she means to be bad or even that she is bad, that's just how she normally operates in order to accomplish her (often positive) goals. I expect to be treated as an equal and I expect someone to be honest and level with me instead of the stuff she does. I'm really pretty easy to work with and I love harmony, but I hate bullying and I hate manipulation and I get difficult real fast when I perceive someone trying to play those cards with me. I almost feel a little sorry for her because she doesn't really know what to do with me.


    My grandmother was an ESFJ, probably not a very healthy one, and this sounds very familiar. She loved me like a daughter and I owe her a great deal, but she wanted to control everything I did. In particular, she wanted me to spend all my time with her and she was jealous of anyone else I spent time with, including my mother! If I didn't do exactly what she wanted me to, she'd pretend to cry in front of me, talk about me on the phone to her friends in front of me as if I wasn't there, etc. Her list of manipulation techniques was exhaustive, and they were all pretty much ineffective on me.

  9. #29
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    So this has turned into the ESFJ bitching thread.

    Mission accomplished, ImNotTooPopular.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
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    Social Penetration Theory 3

  10. #30
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    All we have is this dude's biased perspective of this woman. To even say that she's unhealthy gives credence to his story. These types of threads annoy the holy hell out of me. And since the person is an ESFJ, everyone's favorite type to hate, that makes it all the more better.

    There are a number of threads here asking for help dealing with different types that come in the attitude of sincerely wanting to understand and work through problems. ImNotTooPopular, you just wanted to start a bitchfest and have people jump on the bandwagon with you. Don't enable this guy.
    All I said that was based on the story, her behavior was unhealthy. I never said I trusted his story to be completely accurate, impartial, or without miscommunication. I mean come on... he's an INTP, talking about an ESFJ no less. What did you expect?

    I didn't mean to be an enabler, but I figured that if we talked to him, he might give us more context to explain why he felt the way he did, and whether there was actually anything wrong with her. We could very well be defining what a normal ESFJ is supposed to be, so that people will know that this isn't what all of them act like.

    We could take lemons, and make lemonade.

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