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  1. #1
    Senior Member bcubchgo's Avatar
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    Unhappy ISTJ leaves ENTJ heartbroken

    I feel very dumb for posting this... Especially as an ENTJ.

    An ISTJ broke my heart by severing with me in March after a three month courting period and I'm still trying to get over it.

    It all seemed so dreamy at first. I was talking and he was listening. He seemed like a strong and silent type that would be able to balance my inner emotions. within three weeks of meeting he actually said he thought I was relationship material. He said that I was "one of two people he could see himself in a relationship with."

    then, I took that as an initiative to pursue him more heavily. I called and texted frequently. He responded frequently. I kept talking and I thought he was listening.

    Then, something happened. Around month 2.5 he started to get distant. He clammed up and started to get negative with me. It's as if he purposely was pushing me away. I gave him some space to see what would happen.

    Then I get an email saying "you can ignore me. The choice is up to you. It is your loss" to which I responded.. "i was just giving you some space... "

    Then the proverbial crap hit the fan.... A couple of conversations later and he was really distant. I asked him if something was wrong. He said no. Then during one conversation he said I was bitter and jaded.

    Then I made a fatal mistake. I told him that if he thought I was bitter that he should probably find someone else. I secretly thought he might respond by telling me he wanted me and was sorry.... But instead he said that he was "hoping I would respond that way because I was coming on too strongly and he did not feel any attraction for me anymore."

    That was harsh. I tried to appeal to him by writing him a very flowery letter telling him how special I thought he was and how I cared for him and felt a nurturing bond with him. I wanted to communicate with him but I wondered why he was so uncommunicative and also perhaps a little angry sometimes. I made it clear that I had feelings but he told me to have a nice life.

    It has been a few months and I still cry over him. I wonder how someone can be so unflinching, perhaps even a bit callous when someone tells them how special they are. I am unable to fully move on. I stupidly sent him more messages afterwards trying to get him to realize how valuable I thought he was to me and how we could teach each other to grow. Each one expressed my feelings clearly and eagerly. Stony silence was the response.

    ISTJ's, it hurts a lot when you don't realize the way you manipulate people's emotions by being so standoffish. Just remember that it takes two to tango and when you don't learn to step in tandem that the choreography falls flat. Retracting your feelings for people is worse than never initializing them. Taking a peek beyond your own world view is not really as scary as you think... It might actually benefit you in the end.
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  2. #2
    L'anima non dimora Donna Cecilia's Avatar
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    Been there, done that.

    But not to an ENTJ, now that I read your story, and I remember him, ENFJ suits him better.

    The best (and only) thing you can do now, is to move on.

    First, we don´t like mind games. At all. I dumped this guy because he did the same things as you did: started calling and texting me frequently, then suddenly dissapeared for two weeks without giving a reason. At the end of that period, he called back, and sent me heavily-emotional messages via e-mail. My response to him was pretty similar to the one that ISTJ gave to you.

    I admit I´m a blunt, and fail miserably at recongnizing people´s feelings. I can´t count the times I asked for forgiveness regarding that. But, I can´t understand that kind of behaviour. At that moment I was thinking: "If you want to be with me, why did you suddenly disappear without a reason?", and, the inevitable thing happened: I started to look at, and interact with, other guys, guilt-free.

    If you cross with an ISTJ again, and think about a relationship with him, I suggest you to be honest about what you need in order to be happy in a relationship. If you are straightforward and sincere, without mind tricks (like those you see in romantic movies), he will be glad to do what you need.

    "An intelligent hell would be better than a stupid paradise."
    Victor Hugo



    LII/INTj (Analyst) - 1w9 Sp/Sx - RC|O|EI - Melancholy/Choleric

  3. #3
    Pose! Salt n' pepper's Avatar
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    You don't need to feel dumb. Everyone has the right to feel sad. Seems like you have good reason to as well. I'm sorry you got treated that way by the ISTJ. I don't know what happened, but the whole things is a bit confusing to me; seems like you guys got along and then out of the blue all these negative things. And it's pretty bad manners to just shut someone out without telling them why. But at least you got some straight "answers" from him, and that's really all you need to know to move on. Hold on to what he said and use that to move on.

  4. #4
    Senior Member bcubchgo's Avatar
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    hmm. interesting perspective. mind tricks, eh? so maybe that's how it is interpreted. weird. I can honestly say there were no "tricks" at all that were intentional. I think I get it but it still doesn't make complete sense.

    thanks for the reply salt n' pepper. that helps a little. I think you are right about the bad manners. that is the part that makes everything rather confusing for me. I don't quite understand how I deserved that kind of treatment. someday I will forget him - I'm just not sure when.

    Oh, and I forgot to mention that in case you are wondering why it's taking me so long to move ahead when others would have forgotten him by now - it's probably because I "ran into him" (we saw each other, but no talking occurred.) accidentally at a street fair in June. He was walking with a friend and seeing him made me re-live my emotional baggage all over again. It's weird - I have never reacted like this to someone before. I have been trying to be social to distract myself. It mostly works.

  5. #5
    Pose! Salt n' pepper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcubchgo View Post
    hmm. interesting perspective. mind tricks, eh? so maybe that's how it is interpreted. weird. I can honestly say there were no "tricks" at all that were intentional. I think I get it but it still doesn't make complete sense.
    I think she might have referred to the "fatal mistake" that you did. Testing him. I don't know if it's fair to call that mind games per se. I can understand what that comes from and why you did that. It's more a reaction to an attack (him calling you bitter and jaded) than active mind gaming.

    thanks for the reply salt n' pepper. that helps a little. I think you are right about the bad manners. that is the part that makes everything rather confusing for me. I don't quite understand how I deserved that kind of treatment. someday I will forget him - I'm just not sure when.
    No worries. And you're responding to exactly what I was wondering in my head: what did she do to deserve this kind of treatment? I don't know the story, but it seems like you were treated unfairly and that his behaviour was rather childish. From what you wrote, I can't see why he would act so hostile towards you. Either he's got really bad manners or there's more to this story.

    Loose ends would also make it very hard for me to shut that door. I understand.

    Oh, and I forgot to mention that in case you are wondering why it's taking me so long to move ahead when others would have forgotten him by now - it's probably because I "ran into him" (we saw each other, but no talking occurred.) accidentally at a street fair in June. He was walking with a friend and seeing him made me re-live my emotional baggage all over again. It's weird - I have never reacted like this to someone before. I have been trying to be social to distract myself. It mostly works.
    Sometimes thoughts of someone just pop up, randomly, like a whack a mole. That's completely OK. How you deal with these thoughts is up to you. I did it my completely blocking him out of my system. So I can see how seeing him again might have ruined that wall. When things like this happen, and this might be terrible advice, I just keep blocking them out, ignoring the hell out of him and hang on to the reason why it ended. He told you "he did not feel any attraction for you anymore", I'd try my hardest to remember that to push through.

  6. #6
    L'anima non dimora Donna Cecilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salt n' pepper View Post
    I think she might have referred to the "fatal mistake" that you did. Testing him. I don't know if it's fair to call that mind games per se. I can understand what that comes from and why you did that. It's more a reaction to an attack (him calling you bitter and jaded) than active mind gaming.
    You are right. I was.

    That kind of behaviour enters in the category of mind games for me.

    If somebody is offended because of something that I have said or done, I´d rather have that person telling me so, instead of changing his attitude towards me and (trying to) force me into figuring out what was wrong there. I appreciate sincere communication, and see it as a key element to make a relationship work.

    "An intelligent hell would be better than a stupid paradise."
    Victor Hugo



    LII/INTj (Analyst) - 1w9 Sp/Sx - RC|O|EI - Melancholy/Choleric

  7. #7
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Texting an I frequently from the start is a bad move, especially ITs. The bag of hammers type love has a bad habit of coming accross as needy and is often shut down unless the other person needs or loves the ego boost. Even I have had to dial back the intensity and work on it gradually in order to not scare away decent potentials.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  8. #8
    Pose! Salt n' pepper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donna Cecilia View Post
    You are right. I was.

    That kind of behaviour enters in the category of mind games for me.

    If somebody is offended because of something that I have said or done, I´d rather have that person telling me so, instead of changing his attitude towards me and (trying to) force me into figuring out what was wrong there. I appreciate sincere communication, and see it as a key element to make a relationship work.
    Yeah, I get that too. However, she did ask him if something was wrong. He said no, then he called her bitter and jaded. Didn't give any reason why.

    And before that he was acting distant and negative towards her, without telling her why. That's not fair either. Especially if they were getting along before that. That's very confusing, and one could even call that "mind games".

    But like I said, I don't know what happened, when "something happened".

  9. #9
    L'anima non dimora Donna Cecilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salt n' pepper View Post
    Yeah, I get that too. However, she did ask him if something was wrong. He said no, then he called her bitter and jaded. Didn't give any reason why.

    And before that he was acting distant and negative towards her, without telling her why. That's not fair either. Especially if they were getting along before that. That's very confusing, and one could even call that "mind games".

    But like I said, I don't know what happened, when "something happened".
    I don´t know either. That is the information that the OP is missing, which can be helpful to get out of this "mind game dilemma".

    I don´t act distant for nothing.

    "An intelligent hell would be better than a stupid paradise."
    Victor Hugo



    LII/INTj (Analyst) - 1w9 Sp/Sx - RC|O|EI - Melancholy/Choleric

  10. #10
    Senior Member bcubchgo's Avatar
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    Ok, I guess I will need to go into more detail to answer the missing puzzle pieces.

    First off, I am a man... lol. This was a gay relationship.

    Honestly, I am at a loss to explain exactly what happened because I don't have any explanation from him. Just a bunch of conjecture. I sometimes find myself "conjecturing" a lot because I have no other way to rationalize his silent behavior. I wish i actually knew the real reasons, they have never been offered to me in full.

    But - I think there are a couple of moments that I remember that ended up snowballing for him in terms of how he reacted to me.

    1) In the beginning I went on a couple of out-of town business trips and during these trips I didn't really send him enough communication. I was working late hours and was with another co-worker and I ended up working, focusing, and going to bed without much communication with the outside world. He may have felt that I wasn't being responsive enough. Also - one time I was talking to him on my cell on a trip and I realized that the phone was about to die and I had forgotten to bring my charger with me. I was in my hotel room and I had my car charger outside but not one in the room. He seemed a little offended when i told him that I didn't have a charger with me and I had to go. Perhaps he didn't believe me.

    2) one time we were discussing the movie "Avatar". I told him that I wasn't all that impressed by it and that i thought it was a pretty movie with a lot of flaws. i think he felt like I was being overly critical about the movie and i needed to lighten up. I simply explained to him that I was not the only person in the world to feel as if the movie was overhyped. I did not get any more negative than that - a pretty harmless statement. Anyway, I think that was a tiny spark for him in terms of how we started interpreting me as jaded. He seemed slightly perturbed that I would have any criticisms of the film. I tried to explain to him that it was only my personal opinion.

    3) One his complaints ended up being that I talked about my job too much. I was going through a little bit of a rough patch and i thought he might be interested in being emotionally supportive of me during this time. (in hindsight, that was pretty dumb.) It turns out that he was just getting annoyed by my need to express my frustrations of what I was going through. It was probably not "fun" enough for him to listen to me. I gave him opportunities to change the subject by suggesting we talk about other things but he did not have much to say after I expressed my frustrations. So I ended up doing most of the talking, which may have seemed like I was only interested in my own thoughts. I also remember telling him once that I was too much of a rebel to conform to corporate America and I would feel stifled at a job where I was not allowed creative freedoms. I think his impression was that I was not interested in relating to "normal" folks.. or something.

    3) Texting too much. During the whole time we were talking we would text several times a day. in the beginning he answered them all. Maybe 4-8 texts a day. In the middle of our time together, I continued texting him the same amount but he started to not respond to them all. At the time of the breakup I was sending him like 4-6 texts a day, to which he was only responding to one. I was just trying to let him know that I was still thinking about him. It was just silly stuff like "how's it goin" and whatnot. Small talk. During the second to the last week before the breakup, he was somewhat silent - I continued texting him but he wasn't responding very much. I figured he was busy but getting the messages. Near the end he said that all he needed me to do was stop texting him so much and coming on strongly. He said he was not able to "respond" to all the texts I was sending - whatever that means.

    4) I went on a business trip to the middle of Ohio in a sort of a rural part of the state. One evening I went to a Chinese restaurant / buffet in town and the food there was really bad - probably the worst meal I've ever paid for. I was talking to him afterwards and I mentioned that I had just eaten at a really terrible restaurant and that I thought the area I was in was uninteresting and ugly. He then proceeded to tell me that he thought Ohio was beautiful and that I was bitter and jaded. I didn't understand it at the time - it was very reactionary. The next conversation we had i tried to keep it lighthearted and I focused my attention on him and making him feel good about himself. I didn't get much of a response and I had to end up telling him that i was trying to stroke his ego. Well, that didn't work.

    5) After that conversation I gave him some "space" for a couple of days and didn't say very much. Then he sent *me* the e-mail telling me it was my loss if i didn't want to talk to him. Then I sent a message back the next day saying that I really liked him and I was just giving him some space. He then told me he was "happy that I was still interested" (exact phrase) and we went from there. I decided to wait to see how things would pan out. Three days went by and he said nothing but during all those days he hung out on an internet dating site instead. I tried to keep my feelings inside but when I saw him online after day 3 I sent him the message telling him that he should look elsewhere because I knew that he was ignoring me (by being online instead of talking to me). You know the rest.

    It all seems so strange I cannot quite put my finger on how I was such a horrible person that he never wants to speak to me again. The mixed signals were all over the place. Did he like me or hate me? Was I interesting or boring? Was it my breath?? lol
    Last edited by bcubchgo; 07-30-2010 at 06:56 PM. Reason: spelling

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