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  1. #1
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Default SJ's .. A question regarding the bigger picture of life

    In your opinion what happens when we die?

    Why are we here?

    Add any extra thoughts










    I just want to partake in a serious debate
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  2. #2
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    In your opinion what happens when we die?
    It's pretty simple really. Our biological figure that contains the neccesary faculties to keep cease to function, along with it any metabolic proceses that maintain things like conciousness and perception. We simply disappear out of the empirical relationship we have with time and space, and movement and objects. Death really is just biological decomposition, were we no longer have sapient features. It's arguably a biological degradation, from a higher form to a simpler form. There are many other philosphical approaches, but atleast the one i am suggesting has evidence.

    But i think the question you posed really was: What happens after we die?

    Decomposition
    Conversion
    Energy

    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    Why are we here?
    No practicular reason really, i dont believe in ulterior entities, missions or higher purposes. The more relevant question is how we rather came to be, because there is absoloutely no evidence as to any specfic reason for our existence and state. However there are some convincing, yet incomplete hypothesises that suggest a very complex process that contains several facets, involving particle formation, energy and other concepts that you could write entire books about.


    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    Add any extra thoughts
    just want to partake in a serious debate
    You need to brush up on your questions, since these are extremely broad(besides being extremely, extremely common themes in novice philosphy), and also wouldin't it be appropriate if you gave your own version before you asked for others?.
    Last edited by ColonelGadaafi; 07-25-2010 at 05:08 AM.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  3. #3
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    What's the point of a debate with no absolute truth at the end? :P

    This discussion could easily get religious, but then again, I don't see the point of most religions. I guess people need ways to cope with their existence. What's the point of our life, the bigger picture? That question in itself proposes that individuals can see significantly further into the essence of life than others.

    The objective of religious faith is to find a belief system that traces humans back to a point of creation. That is, in essence, what all religions are for. With each viewpoint in debate, it's nearly impossible to narrow down on believing one is the true one. It's all speculation. Why believe one over the other? There is only one answer. This makes religious beliefs less than valuable.

    As for death, and alluding to what Gadaafi said, it seems to be a point where we cease to be. The existence of a soul is not entirely improbable. The mind and the body seem to have a relationship, but are two separate entities. An example would be the extent to which our body functions without our conscious effort. The same could be said for our brain.

    Looking at our relationship with the world, it's ever-evolving, but at a slow pace when measured with our own perceptions. What is the intended nature of the relationship between humans and animals, our environment, and each other. Are you really even human? Other people in the world, you could go out on a limb and say you don't even know if they are the same species as you.

    Our interaction with the world is limited by our own perceptions. Our understanding of the world is limited to our own experience and comprehension. This goes back to religious faiths. Our world is so complex, and forces are constantly at work that are beyond our sights. We can barely say we even understand how the universe works, and what is happening that we don't see.


  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    In your opinion what happens when we die?
    Well, I think ColonelGadaafi summed up the physical aspects of this quite well...

    But aside from that, none of us really know. You can spend hours arguing and debating over what you think will happen, whether we are reincarnated, we go to heaven, or simply nothing. Since there is no way to really find out, we must all decide for ourselves what happens or not bother to think about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    Why are we here?
    Everyone has a different purpose. It's up to you to find one. But life is what you make it and if you don't make one, there will be none.

  5. #5
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    What's the point of a debate with no absolute truth at the end? :P
    Pretty much - Or rather, what's the point of a debate over something that you can't really argue rationally about. Everyone's opinions on why we're here, or what will happen when we're done, are personal and emotional and subjective. There's no way anyone can "win", imho.

    In other words... I think I'm a little too strongly SJ for this thread
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    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
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  6. #6
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelGadaafi View Post

    But i think the question you posed really was: What happens after we die?

    You need to brush up on your questions, since these are extremely broad(besides being extremely, extremely common themes in novice philosphy), and also wouldin't it be appropriate if you gave your own version before you asked for others?.
    I appreciate your upfront honesty, lol. Sure why not throw the above question in. I like to keep questions broad so it can be interpreted by the individual thus different views can connect (if needs be). Yes i could of given my own opinion but i was curious as to how people would respond. I'll reply at some point.

    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    What's the point of a debate with no absolute truth at the end? :P
    It opens your mind to other possibilities. Why does there have to be an absolute truth anyway?

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Pretty much - Or rather, what's the point of a debate over something that you can't really argue rationally about. Everyone's opinions on why we're here, or what will happen when we're done, are personal and emotional and subjective. There's no way anyone can "win", imho.

    In other words... I think I'm a little too strongly SJ for this thread
    It's not about winning .. That's why i put this thread here and not in the bonfire or philosphy section. I do agree though about the subjectivity. I enjoy listening to differing opinions

  7. #7
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    What's the point of a debate with no absolute truth at the end? :P
    This is what I like best about STJs - the pragmatic focus on reality. I actually agree on this point to a great degree.
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.

  8. #8
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Pretty much - Or rather, what's the point of a debate over something that you can't really argue rationally about. Everyone's opinions on why we're here, or what will happen when we're done, are personal and emotional and subjective. There's no way anyone can "win", imho.

    In other words... I think I'm a little too strongly SJ for this thread
    Well you see here, everything we do is subjective. Everything that we cause, want, desire is also subjective. Even wanting to be rational and objective is based on subjectivity.

    So now matter how you will swing it, you'll still end up in the same part of the ballroom. You have to understand that subjectivity is inseparable from humanity. The point of discussing here is really to satisfy our inherit curiousity on metaphysical questions, and really there is nothing irrational by rationally responding to a need that is inheritly impulsive and irrational. Since the goal here is to satisfy these questions with persuasive answers that we can find feasible, even if they are entirely wrong. It's like calming down a patient with a placebo, while the placebo has no effect whatsoever, the effect on the patient is effective.

    Even the concept of being rational is ultimately self-defeating, since all observers are subjective, thus you cannot establish the neccesary cosensus towards universal objective truths, which is what practicing rationality can be designed to do, to maximize the efficieny of our attempt remain truthfull relatively to our objective, which in this case is to remain truthfull in the question of our origins.

    So really the best system that you can apply is one based on empirical perspective, one that can be proven, over and over again, and one that you can demostrate to your peers as working, even if they don't quite see it the same way. It's not perfect, it still has it's flaws, but it's the next best thing. Since it's supposed to deal with observable phenomenon that atleast tries to reach the standard of objectivity

    Hopefully i am being comprehensible here. I am not good at formulating abstractions.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  9. #9
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    This is what I like best about STJs - the pragmatic focus on reality. I actually agree on this point to a great degree.
    Humour me please By being so focused on reality you in a sense boxing yourself in via tunnel vision .. Reality is more than that, what we see, what we don't, possibilities, intuition etc

    In a SxJ world, who would be producing the theories??? Actually don't answer that

    I was watching a programme on discovery yesterday about the universe and the theoretical physicist were rambling away and they are only theorising until conclusive edivence shows otherwise. There will always be someone who is able to find a new approach.

    Now i understand in a concrete world of an SxJ 'what if's' are not really relevant to an extent .. But in reality nothing really is concrete.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    I do believe that the 'Why are we here' has been summed up nicely by DisneyGeek.

    Having said that, figuring out the individual 'Why am I here' has been headache inducing. For me, it's a simple case of improving something. Occasionally I'd just get into a funny mood, "Why exactly am I doing this again? What's the point?" and feeling like I'm just another person going through this thing called 'Life' along with the countless others. During those times... things do seem a little unreal and I find it hard to believe that I'm at university or in a relationship for example.

    Yeah. I'm guessing this was more of a discussion about what our subjective beliefs is than a debate about what is truth. Doesn't really deviate from what SFJs like to talk about, which is opinions of others. Eitherway, it's nice to talk about this stuff.

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