[SJ] You SJs are so organized and DISCIPLINED. What's your secret??

[raz]

I'm not going to help you when an unexpected situation foils your plans. Now you're listing only the bad parts of perceiving. P doesn't work for you but it might work for someone else - someone who is a P.
For once and all:
J: organized - rigid
P: chaotic - flexible.
You can't be organized and flexible at the same time.

Did I hit your Fe? I think you misunderstood what I was saying, but there's only so much you can get from text. I'm just explaining my viewpoint on people that have been perceivers my entire life. I'm not saying they're incompetent or useless. I'm not completely organized or rigid. Like I've tried reiterating, I don't organize out of a "I think my life must be planned!" desire. I organize it because I just personally desire a directed path to my goals. It may sound the same, but it's really not.

 

[kevrawlings]

ISTJ/ESTJ = thought police

 

[Poki]

ISTJ/ESTJ = thought police

You cant think that!!!!!!!!

 

[kevrawlings]

Squeak out a fart and they'll want to burn you at the stake for it.

 

[Poki]

Squeak out a fart and they'll want to burn you at the stake for it.

Dont even think about it

 

[mrcockburn]

To me, acting like a P is acting irresponsible and ignorant. I'm not trying to insult them. I just won't allow myself to act that way because it's more like I've set standards on myself as I grew up on standards of competence. Not completing something, leaving an unfinished project, lacking discipline, not following instructions, are things that I view as making me look incompetent and unreliable. It's just the way I've used of measuring my worth as a person.

Wow. So you'd probably BEHEAD yourself in your closet if you maxed out a credit card.

Ok, ok, let me try the SJ-approved masochism technique. Now, lets see here...hmm those nipple clamps look quite persuasive. A stretch rack, nice..but out of my budget (see I'm learning fast!). A branding iron, HA! These will prod my newly purchased ISTJs nicely...

 

[raz]

Wow. So you'd probably BEHEAD yourself in your closet if you maxed out a credit card.

Ok, ok, let me try the SJ-approved masochism technique. Now, lets see here...hmm those nipple clamps look quite persuasive. A stretch rack, nice..but out of my budget (see I'm learning fast!). A branding iron, HA! These will prod my newly purchased ISTJs nicely...

Your perceptions of J's are as far off as my perceptions of P's.

 

[Donna Cecilia]

Wow. So you'd probably BEHEAD yourself in your closet if you maxed out a credit card.

Ok, ok, let me try the SJ-approved masochism technique. Now, lets see here...hmm those nipple clamps look quite persuasive. A stretch rack, nice..but out of my budget (see I'm learning fast!). A branding iron, HA! These will prod my newly purchased ISTJs nicely...

You´re sick with prejudice.

I don´t act with discipline in fear of punishment. I´m not my own dictator, but my hardest critic when I´m at fault, which I avoid at all costs. Discipline is the best way to get the best results for me.

The branding iron is a good idea, I can try it by having you as my employee for a while.

 

[mrcockburn]

You´re sick with prejudice.

I don´t act with discipline in fear of punishment. I´m not my own dictator, but my hardest critic when I´m at fault, which I avoid at all costs. Discipline is the best way to get the best results for me.

The branding iron is a good idea, I can try it by having you as my employee for a while.

Sick with prejudice? You sound so serious, like you don't realize I'm just messing with you.

 

[Donna Cecilia]

I am serious.

Still, I realized that (and hand a skin soothing lotion for the whip marks)

But the exchange between you and Raz, and then between you and I, seemed like you just didn´t understand a thing of what we have posted. There is a (very) thin line between joking about something and being stubborn, which you crossed, in my opinion.

Messing with an SJ is not a good idea (and I don´t want to sound like a Mafia boss). Our no-nonsense mindset leads to this kind of situations, in which I find myself at work or University projects quite often.

 

[Donna Cecilia]

I am serious.

Still, I realized that (and hand you a skin soothing lotion for the whip marks)

But, after reading the exchange between you and Raz, and then between you and I, seemed like you just didn´t understand a thing of what we have posted. There is a (very) thin line between joking about something and being stubborn, which you crossed, in my opinion.

Messing with an SJ is not a good idea (and I don´t want to sound like a Mafia boss). Our no-nonsense mindset leads to this kind of situations, in which I find myself at work or University projects quite often.

 

[mrcockburn]

I am serious.

Still, I realized that (and hand a skin soothing lotion for the whip marks)

But the exchange between you and Raz, and then between you and I, seemed like you just didn´t understand a thing of what we have posted. There is a (very) thin line between joking about something and being stubborn, which you crossed, in my opinion.

Messing with an SJ is not a good idea (and I don´t want to sound like a Mafia boss). Our no-nonsense mindset leads to this kind of situations, in which I find myself at work or University projects quite often.

Looking at your sig...you think that sorrow is the source of humor?

No wonder you can't take a joke.

I'm kidding, I'm kidding! Not trying to get whacked here, Consigliere. I can practically see you shaking your finger at me. lol

 

[raz]

Looking at your sig...you think that sorrow is the source of humor?

No wonder you can't take a joke.

I'm kidding, I'm kidding! Not trying to get whacked here, Consigliere. I can practically see you shaking your finger at me. lol

There are different kinds of jokes. I just get sick of the people that misunderstand an SJ's intentions. I'm not the kind of ISTJ that is to do lists and calculating every cent in their budget. I'm like halfway between the management style of an ESTJ and the attention to detail of an ISTJ.

That's why if I ever have the need for excessive organization in my life, I'll probably hire an ISxJ secretary. I just don't have the patience to keep up with the tinier mundane things of life that are important. A lot of the secretarial type everyday things I need done, I shove it on my ESFJ sister.

My life experience has just taught me when ISTJ impulses when I'm with other people are just ineffective. The need to demand something from someone without thinking about their reaction, correcting something without looking at the bigger picture, berating someone without taking into consideration their limitations and feelings.

Each ISTJ is just different.

 

[Poki]

It's like at work becoming obsessed with keeping my department fully stocked and organized on a daily basis. I want to maximize sales by making sure I don't miss out on something that was in a stock room. To me, I think of the phrase, "Have you made sure you dotted all of your i's and crossed all your t's?" It's about completion.

To me, acting like a P is acting irresponsible and ignorant. I'm not trying to insult them. I just won't allow myself to act that way because it's more like I've set standards on myself as I grew up on standards of competence. Not completing something, leaving an unfinished project, lacking discipline, not following instructions, are things that I view as making me look incompetent and unreliable. It's just the way I've used of measuring my worth as a person.

The issues where P types slack is discipline. Finishing things is a way to externally measure competence as well as taking a test. The other way to show competence is to prove yourself when you need to. Most Ps I know are extremely competent, we are disciplined, but honestly I could careless what my worth is in the areas that Js care about. Honestly I know my worth in life everyone else knows my worth, I am 100% confident in it, and I dont need to measure it. Its what allows me to be P. I have never doubted my worth as a person.

You say "acting" like a P is irresponsible and ignorant. At times I will be extra P around J types just because of the impression it gives them that I am incompetent. But its funny that I actually impress people because of my competence and knowledge despite the fact that I am a P. Its one of the ways I play with people, its one of my P traits

 

[Donna Cecilia]

Looking at your sig...you think that sorrow is the source of humor?

No wonder you can't take a joke.

I'm kidding, I'm kidding! Not trying to get whacked here, Consigliere. I can practically see you shaking your finger at me. lol

I do, because my sense of humour has that source. And it is not for all audiences. From what I´m reading here, you don´t belong to it. I was kidding with you as well on this thread. But, having to explain a joke is one of the worst possible things to do. So, I leave it up to you to figure it out.

I just whack those who think that ISTJs are walking computers.

 

[Poki]

I do, because my sense of humour has that source. And it is not for all audiences. From what I´m reading here, you don´t belong to it. I was kidding with you as well on this thread. But, having to explain a joke is one of the worst possible things to do. So, I leave it up to you to figure it out.

I just whack those who think that ISTJs are walking computers.

Hopefully you werent programmed by a P or you would be a unfinished product

 

[Donna Cecilia]

Hopefully you werent programmed by a P or you would be a unfinished product

My father is an INTJ, so don´t worry.

 

[raz]

The issues where P types slack is discipline. Finishing things is a way to externally measure competence as well as taking a test. The other way to show competence is to prove yourself when you need to. Most Ps I know are extremely competent, we are disciplined, but honestly I could careless what my worth is in the areas that Js care about. Honestly I know my worth in life everyone else knows my worth, I am 100% confident in it, and I dont need to measure it. Its what allows me to be P. I have never doubted my worth as a person.

You say "acting" like a P is irresponsible and ignorant. At times I will be extra P around J types just because of the impression it gives them that I am incompetent. But its funny that I actually impress people because of my competence and knowledge despite the fact that I am a P. Its one of the ways I play with people, its one of my P traits

I never said P's were ineffective. The quote above is just how I view myself and how I've taught myself to continually grow. It's your natural impulses that show you your way of growing. The problem with each type comes when you're working together and one side doesn't understand the other or both don't understand each other and it comes out as conflict.

Everything I said above is how *I* measure myself, and what I use as guidelines to help myself. The words I choose can be used in different ways for other situations, but I run my world by logic and discipline, finding out which aspects of rational intellect matter to me the most, resulting in having an interest in organization, direction, and guidelines when I see necessary.

However, that is not my entire life. I still go with the flow at times and have interests in other possibilities, which are mostly governed by my planning. When I can't effectively plan something, I recognize when to go with the flow, and when I'm deciding on things, I often have that "Ne hunch" that there's something else around the corner that I should take into consideration. I don't view it as rigidity or uptightness. I view it as effective management. It's more lessons I've learned as I grew up that there are times when you just have to wait and you can't plan and there are times when you have to force yourself to adapt because it's just necessary.

 

[CzeCze]

To me, acting like a P is acting irresponsible and ignorant. I'm not trying to insult them. I just won't allow myself to act that way because it's more like I've set standards on myself as I grew up on standards of competence. Not completing something, leaving an unfinished project, lacking discipline, not following instructions, are things that I view as making me look incompetent and unreliable. It's just the way I've used of measuring my worth as a person.

I'm not sure if how much you were kidding in this - but I can actually see this attitude not explicitly expressed by some J's, like my INTJ dad. Glad you at least articulated it. (Actually, he articulates it too, just in specific cases not on general principle)

I think the other attitude I see is more like..

:shaking your proverbial head and feeling sorry for those other jokers:

 

[EJCC]

^I actually agree with raz. I wish I didn't feel like that, but I tend to feel like there's a right way and a wrong way, and the right way involves organization and being on time! It's all about priorities, I suppose. Everybody has their own method of going about things. I'd just rather that people's methods don't get in the way of productivity, etc.

No wonder you can't take a joke.

One thing I love about TypeC is how it shows me that I'm not alone in having many little quirks. This thread is no exception.

I don't take being teased very well, usually. I tend to instinctively react to it like it's an insult, because teasing is based on negative fact and I'm not very good at laughing at my flaws, because I'd rather not have any flaws worth making fun of. I think DC was reacting the same way to your teasing. (Don't get me wrong - I got the humor. It was funny. But I only recognized the humor because since I learned about MBTI, I've gotten good at laughing at my type's flaws.)