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  1. #31
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Keep in mind too that INTP's love to "understand" how things/people work. We learn by exploring, asking questions, and sometimes even provoking - in order to get answers. Each time another question is answered, we understand that much better.

    The only reason I've stuck with this thread and continue to keep "exploring" is because I find your answers and feedback valuable. I find it valuable because of the fact that I work for an ESTJ and have family members that are ESTJ.

    So, yeah, please forgive me if I was over-the-top or out of bounds with my rant. It's all in an attempt to gain a better understanding. I promise.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  2. #32
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Keep in mind too that INTP's love to "understand" how things/people work. We learn by exploring, asking questions, and sometimes even provoking - in order to get answers. Each time another question is answered, we understand that much better.

    The only reason I've stuck with this thread and continue to keep "exploring" is because I find your answers and feedback valuable. I find it valuable because of the fact that I work for an ESTJ and have family members that are ESTJ.

    So, yeah, please forgive me if I was over-the-top or out of bounds with my rant. It's all in an attempt to gain a better understanding. I promise.
    Oh, it's totally fine. I understand, and I'm glad we all could help. The only reason why I made that comment before is that, in typical ESTJ fashion, I had the thought "Why keep talking about it instead of going out and solving the problem?" But it makes perfect sense, since it's all in pursuit of further knowledge.

    I especially understand because my dad (who I have a fairly close relationship with, and yet don't understand even remotely at times) is an INTP.

    You know - (cue shameless promotion) - an excellent place to continue asking ESTJ questions would be the "Ask an ESTJ" thread! I know you've asked questions there before, but nonetheless.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  3. #33
    Junior Member ScentlessApprentice's Avatar
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    I have somewhat of a friend who is an ESTJ. We we're really good friends in our younger years, but now he has changed. He can be very bossy and always wants to take control, but at the same time he tries to be deep and caring towards others. He is also very transparent and changes his words to fit what everyone wants to hear.

    He is also a 4w3, so I'm not sure if that explains the transparent personality and the caring for others, but it's definitely confusing.
    5-4 INFP "The Idealist"

    If you want to find out what's behind these cold eyes, you'll just have to claw your way through this disguise.

  4. #34
    ♪♫♪♫♪♫ luminous beam's Avatar
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    i would say "do what you do" at work, don't give the boss any reason to criticize your work or the results that you get. if they think their way is better, even if you find your way to work best, unless you are going to clearly state and explain your process to them in a way that they will understand, you should go with 'their way' and prove them wrong when it fails or gets lame results lol ask yourself these questions: is my approach more time and cost efficient? is my approach more practical? does my approach get us better results? if the answer is "yes" to all of the above, i don't see how a reasonable boss would reject the preposition. if the answer is "no" i'm not sure that it'll make the cut.

    also, i would say humor them when they want to chat and are being friendly. even if i you could care less about the small talk they have to offer, make an effort to take the time to participate...that's the 'professional' office etiquette thing to do. if you try to approach them only when you're free and in the mood to talk, that probably won't fly as you've experienced already. usually detail oriented bosses keep themselves very busy, so if you don't take advantage of the free time they're offering you, you may not be able to get through when you seek them out. just imo.


  5. #35
    morose bourgeoisie
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    I work with many ESTJ and ESTP males. Some women too.

    They almost all are very easy to read, I think because they are not interested in 'sub text' at all. What you see is what you get. It's really that simple. Personally, I appreciate it.

  6. #36
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    I do not get along with ESTJs.

  7. #37
    A window to the soul
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    Pretty please, yes, and thank you.

  8. #38
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unique View Post
    IMO nothing will create complete harmony, but if you can get into a situation where the contact is limited between you and them then its bearable
    Yeah. That's the only way I have found to get "along" with an ESTJ. Probably the thing is that we're both base Te types with a different creative function: we both have rather clear ideas on how to get a given job done, yet these ideas can be rather different. If there's extensive contact between us, most of the time the ESTJ will try to find a way to get me fired. I perfectly understand their rationale: I am an obstacle that needs to be removed, since usually you can't implement both Te-Ni and Te-Si methods.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  9. #39
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    I get along nicely with the only ESTJ I know in real life. I'm even married to him.
    I'm betting your boss feels a bit awkward about that behavior too (or doesn't realise he's doing it, which is very much possible - in that case, have a polite and very matter-of-fact chat with him). The ESTJ's main way of communicating with the outside world is Te - "this needs to be done" - larded with Si - "and it must be done this way". Why losing time on commenting on things that go well, if with the same effort you can improve things? "People" fall under the "things" category.
    Probably your ESTJ boss realises (or has been told) this approach is sometimes counterproductive, due to (to him very alien) Fe effects such as "if you only talk about what's needed to be done and about what's wrong, people will be put off".
    So he's actually trying. He's doing the best he can to be friendly and to chit-chat and expects (well, that's how he's been told) that people like it. It can also be that you're seeing his third function trying to help the poor little Fe - and the third one is Ne, the mad associator.
    And sometimes he just fails and falls down on his normal, blunt way of dealing with the world. If he realises he's switching between these two modes, probably he has got some difficulties with that. Mood swings? That's the last thing an ESTJ wants.

    There has been a conversation lately in the "Ask an ESTJ" thread which could be helpful: http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...-estj-120.html
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

  10. #40
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Thanks again to all who posted. It's been very insightful and your advice does ring true of the ESTJ's in my family. A few things:

    1) Stuff definitely is rolling down hill. His bosses are all over him. And we try to keep that in mind.

    2) IzThe411 hit the nail on the head about his nitpicking about things "that don't really have a huge impact on the final results." It's little stuff. That's what's maddening to me. INTP's are really good at seeing how everything is working together - we see how it all comes together. While he is spending 10 minutes arguing with someone about "how long their method takes", I'm just listening to it all and thinking to myself, "Are you forgetting that you're wasting 10 minutes RIGHT NOW of your own time and of that person's time - that's actually 20 minutes. And what's even more maddening is that sometimes he'll be arguing with one of the most productive workers that he has - the person who gets stuff done the fastest. It's like he's so focused on trying to tell people that they're wrong, that he's getting in his own way - stepping on his own feet. He ends up being the one who is wasting everyone's time. The person is already EXTREMELY fast and good - why change a good thing?

    3) As for his questions meaning "State your case. Show me I'm wrong." This is what drives an INTP nuts. Because we've already analyzed (probably 10 times more than he has) what is the ABSOLUTE most efficient way to do it. We're INTP's - that's what we do. I know that he doesn't know that, but it's like he's challenging me on things like "why I'm using the wrong brand of tissue" (I'm exaggerating), when I've already got it worked out - my bottom line results are good.

    If I have a productive worker who gets things done quickly and efficiently, I'm leaving that person alone and letting them "do what they do". It's like if you peek into your kid's bedroom and he's cleaning his bedroom all by himself. He's putting things in their right place, being very productive. You're not going to interrupt him. Let him keep doing it - and then when he's all done, maybe you tell him "good job" or you reward him in some way. You wouldn't say, "You put that toy in the left side of the toy box. I want it on the right side from now on."

    Just the way I see it. But, thanks again for the ESTJ insight.
    I was working in a farm in Germany. My foreman was Gunther, an ESTJ.
    He did not like the way I did things.
    I used to have the tool in my left hand.

    The first day in the field, Gunther kindly removed the tool from my left hand.
    He said: Nix so!
    Gunther placed the tool in my right hand and said: So!

    I am left handed. Very much so, I am afraid. However, I did not object to Gunther.
    From that moment on, I let my right hand direct my movements.
    It took me twice as long to do the job.
    Gunther cut my wages 50 per cent. A logical outcome of the issue.
    I did not complain. I was happy in my work.

    A professor of mine was an ESTJ.
    His way to tackle any problem was directly contrary to mine.
    He was intelligent, and never wrong. I admired his grasp of things very much.
    I understood the way he did things. I could not actively perform the way he did, though.

    It is easy to change a hand.
    It is difficult to change your entire way of thinking.

    The INTP way to tackle problems is not better, or worse.
    It is only different.

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