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  1. #11
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Live ya life MBTIE-

    You'll learn to appreciate that you can't assume that people are going to live to the same standard you are. So when you find out stuff about them that = failure in your book, it's not a let down.

    You'll also be surprised at how much you as an ISTJ will do what you said you would never do. Not talking drug caliber offenses ( I have and always will think it's stupid to experiment with them), but you will begin to fall short of that standard that you hold yourself and others too, because you'll see it's unnecessary and gets in the way.

  2. #12
    L'anima non dimora Donna Cecilia's Avatar
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    I´m only against illegal drug use. I have my good amounts of whiskey in my after-office fridays and parties, but not to the point of getting drunk. And I tolerate quite well people who drink and party (as the OP says), as long as they don´t behave in a disrespectful or embarrasing way.

    As for illegal drugs, it´s different. I can´t stand talking to somebody who is stoned, or hyper because of their use. And, the very reason why I don´t consume them is because I don´t want to look as idiotic as their users look to me (no makeup fixes a stoned face). It´s mainly a question of vanity.

    But wait, don´t get the above paragraph wrong (as many people here stated here that they are into marijuana) I don´t consider drug users to be idiots (I think that every single adult is smart enough to know what is right for themselves). I´m saying that they behave like complete idiots when affected by that substances. I can stand people who uses drugs, but only when they are sober. I got all of my classmates and friends to not use drugs when they are with me in a non-party context, while I abstain from making any judgement. In parties, when they´re dope, I leave them and make my own way into the place -this "tactic" also helps me to meet lots of new people. It just makes our relationship easier. Neither them nor me make any fuss about that. Acceptance at its best.

    "An intelligent hell would be better than a stupid paradise."
    Victor Hugo



    LII/INTj (Analyst) - 1w9 Sp/Sx - RC|O|EI - Melancholy/Choleric

  3. #13
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    I used to be much against drugs in all forms, and didn't get drunk until I was like 22 or so. I was also slightly troubled when I heard that some of my friends had tried out cannabis.

    But now I realize that "drugs" is a completely misleading and artificial term. Cannabis is classified as a drug, and it's distribution has been limited to a great extend by laws, while caffeine is almost unregulated. Yet caffeine is also a drug and a very addictive one too. It's also very harmful on long-term usage, and an overdose might make you reckless and prone taking stupid risks. And yet there are no laws against the use of caffeine.

    Also, alcohol is much more destructive a drug than cannabis, yet it's use is widely accepted, even endorsed in many cultures (for example, wines are seen as exquisite products). And what about tobacco? Lately many governments have forced strong restrictions towards it's usage and advertisements. One could say it's being forced out of our culture by hindering it's usage. Yet tobacco doesn't really alter your psyche or affect your cognitive functions, like alcohol does.

    So whatever rules there are for drugs, they seem to be somewhat arbitrary and carrying loads of legacy weight (alcohol and tobacco business is very profitable, and it's criminalization would lead to massive economical losses). So prohibiting yourself from using illicit drugs is rather artificial a rule.

    It took me quite a while to understand the paradoxical nature of current drug laws. Actually I still do look down upon cannabis-users, while I keep doing alcohol myself. I can't really rationale that, besides pointing to our cultural values in which cannabis usage is not being endorsed the same way as alcohol usage is. However, while it's not very logical reason as such, it's still a rather valid one. Your employer is far more likely to accept your habit of using alcohol than it is to accept your use of cannabis.

    So, I've become far more liberal in my views towards drugs, and now understand that there is no such substance as "drug", but rather there variety of substances that each have a variety of unique properties.

    One should know s/he's limits and should not be succumbed into these substances. It is not really my place to judge people by the substances they prefer, prefer not to use. Well, up to a point where they begin hurting themselves or other people.

    Alcohol, tobacco, cannabis and the rest have very important social impact, and one should really consider the price of refusing to use any of them. At least here in Finland, alcohol is important part of celebrating and socializing with people. Being left out of parties due to one's non-alcohol policy might even be more harmful than the use of said substance. Also, I'd guess that "Hey, can I lend your lighter" is one of the most popular conversation starters in the world.

    Now, I have a couple of friends in college who do drugs (marijuana, acid), and even if it is only occasional, I cannot be in the same room as them if they are high. It just completely and utterly disgusts me, and I cannot handle when people do not act as they would normally.
    I do not mean to offend you, but I ask you to consider this: A friend of mine says that every negative reaction people provoke in us (greed, envy, hatred, fear, disgust...) is because we feel vulnerable and wounded, and have to burst out. So, would it be possible that you secretly envy those people who are able letting out of control and have fun... and maybe make friends with other people easier than you do.. and that they are having much easier time with connecting to other people than yourself? I mean, it's rather unfair that people are more likely to socialize with these "junkies" rather than completely sober people.

    Many ISTJs here on board have said that they are having difficulties in relating and connecting to other people (including me), so I would not be surprised to hear you sharing these same difficulties. And like I said before, "drugs" often play an important role in socializing.

    Just my 2 cents, in a form of random ramblings.
    "The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine."
    -Nikola Tesla

  4. #14
    Perfect Gentleman! =D d@v3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MBTI Enthusiast View Post
    I was wondering if this was just me or if this is common for many ISTJs or SJs:

    I have always been "against" using drugs. When I was younger, I naively assumed that the majority of people in my high school did not do drugs (including alcohol), and when I realized that the majority DO, I was flabbergasted. My mantra became that I could not control what other people do and can only control myself. Now, I have a couple of friends in college who do drugs (marijuana, acid), and even if it is only occasional, I cannot be in the same room as them if they are high. It just completely and utterly disgusts me, and I cannot handle when people do not act as they would normally. I've stuck by my previous mantra, and I make sure I myself never use any or am associated with drugs, but I can't seem to stop judging people by their actions.

    So do any other ISTJs or SJs in general feel this way? Or could it just be my particular circumstances that conditioned me to be like this?
    I generally feel this same way. However, I realized a long time ago that I was in no authoritative position to do anything about it. I decided that people are going to do what they want no matter what law is in place (actually, I feel like this about most laws) so as long as they are not affecting others, there are many more important things to worry about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    Your views on alcohol will most likely change as well in time. The way I see it: I don't really care what a person wants to do if they're not interferring with others. I realize laws are in place though and for a reason and I feel like if you're busted in whatever act, you deserve the repercussions.
    +1 Beat!
    Freedom Isn't Free. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #15
    Member MBTI Enthusiast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    I dont think its normal for ISTJs to be really for or against anything its all what you have been exposed to.
    It's probably the fact that I haven't really been exposed much that scares me. Anything unknown has always been frightening to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    The way I see it: I don't really care what a person wants to do if they're not interferring with others.
    I pretty much have that view... except for the people who I am close to. For some reason, I have them on a higher standard.

    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    You'll also be surprised at how much you as an ISTJ will do what you said you would never do. Not talking drug caliber offenses ( I have and always will think it's stupid to experiment with them), but you will begin to fall short of that standard that you hold yourself and others too, because you'll see it's unnecessary and gets in the way.
    Yeah, I can see that happening for certain things in life. Thanks for the words of wisdom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Donna Cecilia View Post
    I can stand people who uses drugs, but only when they are sober. I got all of my classmates and friends to not use drugs when they are with me in a non-party context, while I abstain from making any judgement. In parties, when they´re dope, I leave them and make my own way into the place -this "tactic" also helps me to meet lots of new people. It just makes our relationship easier. Neither them nor me make any fuss about that. Acceptance at its best.
    This is how I am trying to deal with my situation. Hopefully someday I can stop the twinge of disappointment in them for their actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Habba View Post
    But now I realize that "drugs" is a completely misleading and artificial term.
    ...
    It took me quite a while to understand the paradoxical nature of current drug laws. Actually I still do look down upon cannabis-users, while I keep doing alcohol myself. I can't really rationale that, besides pointing to our cultural values in which cannabis usage is not being endorsed the same way as alcohol usage is.
    I agree and acknowledge that the word "drug" is misleading. I didn't really want to use it, but I lacked a better description.

    Quote Originally Posted by Habba View Post
    I do not mean to offend you, but I ask you to consider this: A friend of mine says that every negative reaction people provoke in us (greed, envy, hatred, fear, disgust...) is because we feel vulnerable and wounded, and have to burst out. So, would it be possible that you secretly envy those people who are able letting out of control and have fun... and maybe make friends with other people easier than you do.. and that they are having much easier time with connecting to other people than yourself? I mean, it's rather unfair that people are more likely to socialize with these "junkies" rather than completely sober people.

    Many ISTJs here on board have said that they are having difficulties in relating and connecting to other people (including me), so I would not be surprised to hear you sharing these same difficulties. And like I said before, "drugs" often play an important role in socializing.
    No offense taken, that's a very legitimate question. I'll answer for the use of alcohol, since I don't think the illegal drugs are as much of a social factor for as many people. As for alcohol, in high school I would have to say that I did not feel jealous of anyone for those reasons. I was perfectly happy living in my own bubble. I didn't even think about what it would be like or what these people were doing. It was just not a part of my routine and I didn't really have any reason to change things. My best friend in my previous post had about a semester of partying but then she got sick of it, and none of my other friends really partied. So it was easy to forget that that's what others did.

    In college, I have been too busy to party much, and I would rather use my free time doing something relaxing for ol' introverted me like watching a movie or playing board games with a handful of friends than go out and party. I also think it's safe to assume that it's definitely not as fun to party either when you don't drink.

    As for actually being jealous of those who flourish the party scene, I can't really say that I have been. I don't think jealousy really comes into play with something that you can change so easily. It's not too hard to pick up a drink or a joint or whatever, but I just chose not to. I may be jealous of others' more extraverted nature, but I don't really associate that with alcohol or other drugs in my mind.

    Nevertheless, Habba and everyone else, thanks so much for your two cents. I'll have to keep thinking about this and really try to get to the root of what bothers me so much about it.

  6. #16
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MBTI Enthusiast View Post
    It just completely and utterly disgusts me, and I cannot handle when people do not act as they would normally.
    I can relate to this part, meaning that the only reason they're not acting normally is because of the drugs. It makes me ask, "Are you the same person? Are you just acting like this because the drugs are 'telling you' to?" So basically, the mind-altering properties are what disturb me here. That break in behavior trends is not disturbing because it's unpredictable, it's disturbing because a break in usual behavior suggests a lack of authenticity and being true to self, caving in to social pressure / following the herd, etc.

    (I also associate it with a lack of self-control, which is more a personal standard for myself than the other things I mentioned.)
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  7. #17
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    the istj i know liked them much.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  8. #18
    Senior Member uberrogo's Avatar
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    I dont mind people who do drugs, meaning I dont think they are horrible people. I dont do them myself unless you consider once every 15 years as doing drugs. As for drinking alcohol I definitly like to do that but I dont like to be around people who are drunk if I am not drinking or drunk.
    If Men's Health magazine was true, you would never need to buy more than one issue.

  9. #19
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    I am against illegal drugs. I don't mind alcohol, but I look down on people that do drugs and/or smoke.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

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