[ISFJ] I have this weird problem: ISFJ women.

[Saslou]

Actually there is a correlation.

* Other personality traits being the same, an iNtuitive person (one who grasps patterns and seeks possibilities) is 27 times more likely to have a high IQ than a Sensing person (one who focuses on sensory details and the here-and-now).

* Again, other traits being the same, an Introverted person is 8 times more likely to have a high IQ than one who is Extraverted; a Thinking (logic-oriented) person is 2.5 times more likely to have a high IQ than a Feeling (people-oriented) person; and a Judging person (one who seeks closure) is about twice as likely to have a high IQ than a Perceiving person (one who likes to keep his options open).

Liberty Corner: IQ and Personality

The one thing that made me chuckle regarding that link was:

Think about that, then think of all those people out there who chatter mindlessly on their cell phones, watch TV incessantly (especially daytime TV and "reality" shows), "hang out", and just can't seem to "get it together". It's frightening to be surrounded by all those stupid people

I think it would interesting if it was that stupid person that saved your life one day in the street having gained the knowledge from day time TV. Never a doctor around when you need one.

It has also been mentioned on this site that IQ tests are more geared towards N's.

To quote your site again:
And the people who make IQ tests are also people who enjoy puzzle solving, and who believe that puzzle solving is an important and valuable ability (i.e., they are passionate about puzzle solving, interpreted in a very general sense). Essentially, an IQ test measures the overlap between the passions of the test taker and the passions of the test maker.

So of course you are going to do better. Now i enjoy puzzle solving but only when i am in the mood for it. Hence the IQ of 114 depending on which test i do.

 

[SubjectA]

Actually there is a correlation.

* Other personality traits being the same, an iNtuitive person (one who grasps patterns and seeks possibilities) is 27 times more likely to have a high IQ than a Sensing person (one who focuses on sensory details and the here-and-now).

* Again, other traits being the same, an Introverted person is 8 times more likely to have a high IQ than one who is Extraverted; a Thinking (logic-oriented) person is 2.5 times more likely to have a high IQ than a Feeling (people-oriented) person; and a Judging person (one who seeks closure) is about twice as likely to have a high IQ than a Perceiving person (one who likes to keep his options open).

Liberty Corner: IQ and Personality

Here we go with this bullshit again.

First of all that "source" is a political blog, and a very biased one at that. Judging by his "The Right Is Smarter Than The Left" entry, in which he just uses some faulty logic in linking MBTI to political affiliation and then concludes that Republicans are smarter than Democrats, this guy deserves little credibility.

This person provided no studies, no credible sources, nothing. MBTI is a faulty categorization system, and to top it off IQ tests are faulty too because they horribly biased towards those who can recognize patterns (like intuitives) in the first place. So is recognizing patterns the key to having a successful life? Does it make you smart? No. IQ tests do a shitty job of measuring other types of intelligence. All they really measure is how well you're able to take the test.



OP: It sounds like you just have relationship issues in general, ISFJ women or not, looking at your second post. When will people learn that relationships are about compromise? There's no room for selfishness in a relationship. If an ISFJ cares for you enough, they will change. It just takes them a while sometimes. In fact, they'd probably bend over backwards for you if they loved you enough, because that's just how they are.

Granted, you shouldn't have to just conform to their wishes all the time, but you need to make some changes, too. If you're not mature enough to do that, than either create a clone of yourself and marry it, or don't be in a relationship at all. I know you don't want to be a "doormat," but you shouldn't expect anyone else to be either.

 

[chegra]

Here we go with this bullshit again.

Isn't it all just bullshit. But there are certain underlying assumptions like mbti and iq is not faulty.

But yea a cleaner source:
The Relationship of the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) to IQ Level and the Fluid and Crystallized IQ Discrepancy on the Kaufman Adolescent and Adult Intelligence Test (KAIT) -- Kaufman et al. 3 (3): 225 -- Assessment

 

[SubjectA]

Isn't it all just bullshit. But there are certain underlying assumptions like mbti and iq is not faulty.

But yea a cleaner source:
The Relationship of the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) to IQ Level and the Fluid and Crystallized IQ Discrepancy on the Kaufman Adolescent and Adult Intelligence Test (KAIT) -- Kaufman et al. 3 (3): 225 -- Assessment

I'm curious as to how they measured these scores and how many of each MBTI type took the test. Was the test optional to take, or was it mandatory? If it was optional, it would make sense that a larger population of NT's would be willing to take it, since we characteristically feel a need to validate ourselves. Too bad you have to pay to find out...

Also, they're trying to measure something as faulty as MBTI in the first place. That should raise a couple of red flags for you.

 

[Lambchop]

Wow, there is a lot of ISFJ bashing (more specifically SJ's...but still)! I think it's important to remember that personality type does NOT define people. We each have our own personalities and experiences that help make us who we are. And there is such a thing as emotional intelligence as well as intellectual intelligence. I am an ISFJ and I know a few ISFJ's and we are all over the map in intellectual intellegence. My sister is an ISFJ and never finished high school. I have been accepted with a full ride scholarship to law school. My son's stepmother is an ISFJ with a double major in Psychology and Engineering and is extremely intelligent. My ex-husband is an ISFJ and has been working in a toilet paper factory for over 10 years. Our personality type does not define our intelligence.

I feel like I need to stick up a little for ISFJ's here. Also, stereotyping ISFJ's as controlling and needy or doormats is like sterotyping a specific ethnicity as lazy (incorrect!). My INFP husband could never be with someone who is controlling...he does his own thing and he wouldn't have it any other way. I am nobody's doormat. I am kind and compassionate and empathetic, but I can also see through bullshit and call it for what it is. I wouldn't take advantage of other people and I am not someone who lets other people take advantage of them. With regard to our "niceness" at first wearing off, I think that is a matter of perspective. Anytime you get to know someone, their not so pretty side comes out. And EVERYONE has a not so pretty side or a "shadow" side. EVERYONE has skeletons in their closets. Isn't that why they say "familiarity breeds contempt?" I don't recall the saying being "ISFJ's and familiarity breed contempt."

If someone has an abrasive personality (like the original poster), I am not going to be their best friend. I will try to find the good in them (like I do with everyone), and focus on that - especially if I have to be around them at work, but they are going to grate on mine (or ANYONE's nerves.)

I don't understand how ISFJs can be characterized as doormats, yet controlling. If we give in and do it your way, we are doormats? If we want to do it our way, we are controlling? Someone should make up their mind! Personally, I try to find middle ground that works for both people. I like schedules and knowing what I'll be doing ahead of time. My INFP husband is laid back, you can call him on a Saturday afternoon at 7pm to see if he wants to do something at 8pm and he's fine with that. 90% of the time, I would turn down the invitation...I usually already have plans that I've made ahead of time. So I try to be more flexible and he tries to plan ahead. We are individuals, not labels. It's wrong to stereotype "ISFJ females" (or any other personality type and gender) into one category!

Go ISFJs!!

 

[Giggly]

You tell 'em, Lambchop.

 

[Tiltyred]

Actually there is a correlation.

* Other personality traits being the same, an iNtuitive person (one who grasps patterns and seeks possibilities) is 27 times more likely to have a high IQ than a Sensing person (one who focuses on sensory details and the here-and-now).

* Again, other traits being the same, an Introverted person is 8 times more likely to have a high IQ than one who is Extraverted; a Thinking (logic-oriented) person is 2.5 times more likely to have a high IQ than a Feeling (people-oriented) person; and a Judging person (one who seeks closure) is about twice as likely to have a high IQ than a Perceiving person (one who likes to keep his options open).

Liberty Corner: IQ and Personality

Which is more likely to lock their keys in the car and walk into furniture?

 

[Totenkindly]

Actually there is a correlation.

* Other personality traits being the same, an iNtuitive person (one who grasps patterns and seeks possibilities) is 27 times more likely to have a high IQ than a Sensing person (one who focuses on sensory details and the here-and-now).

* Again, other traits being the same, an Introverted person is 8 times more likely to have a high IQ than one who is Extraverted; a Thinking (logic-oriented) person is 2.5 times more likely to have a high IQ than a Feeling (people-oriented) person; and a Judging person (one who seeks closure) is about twice as likely to have a high IQ than a Perceiving person (one who likes to keep his options open).

Regardless of any sort of validity... what if IQ was designed to test for intelligence as expressed by IN** people? Is that really intelligence or is it bigger than that?

(Not a lot different than designing a test for people from one culture and then saying people from another culture aren't as smart because they didn't do as well.)

 

[Ozz]

Actually there is a correlation.

* Other personality traits being the same, an iNtuitive person (one who grasps patterns and seeks possibilities) is 27 times more likely to have a high IQ than a Sensing person (one who focuses on sensory details and the here-and-now).

* Again, other traits being the same, an Introverted person is 8 times more likely to have a high IQ than one who is Extraverted; a Thinking (logic-oriented) person is 2.5 times more likely to have a high IQ than a Feeling (people-oriented) person; and a Judging person (one who seeks closure) is about twice as likely to have a high IQ than a Perceiving person (one who likes to keep his options open).

Liberty Corner: IQ and Personality

Interesting, so INTJ > INTP. The folks at INTJf and INTPc are going to go nuts on this.

 

[ayoitsStepho]

ISFJs drive me mad, and I've explained why this is before... Still, I can't bring myself to hate them because they're so freaking selfless, helpful, and willing.

*shakes his fist at the sky*

Well, its not so comforting know that your cause discomfort in others...just by steriotype. I feel like I'm gonna walk into a thread and everyones gonna yell "ISFJ, RUNNNN!!" and then all the cookies i brought for enjoyment will be wasted

 

[Saslou]

Well, its not so comforting know that your cause discomfort in others...just by steriotype. I feel like I'm gonna walk into a thread and everyones gonna yell "ISFJ, RUNNNN!!" and then all the cookies i brought for enjoyment will be wasted

Sod the rest of them .. Us SJ's can enjoy the cookies. I'll just put the kettle on OK.

It is sad that people will use unhealthy types as examples when we are not all like that. I think even if you don't usually get on with a particualr type, you should still try and make the effort. They may well be surprised and in return gain a new friend. Why limit potential allies due to past experiences.

Or maybe i am just crazy, lol.

 

[Liminality]

Which is more likely to lock their keys in the car and walk into furniture?

Yes, IQ is one type of intelligence, my mum can't do them for anything, but her empathy and general emotional intelligence boggles the mind.

 

[Edgar]

Just to be clear, my mom is an ISTJ, and I must say that she is WAAAAAAAY more aggressive than these ISFJs I know, so I'm somewhat used to it. But at the end of the day, the general bullshit still bothers me, and doesn't ever seem to go away.

My mom is a hardass ISTJ too, but there are no games or reading between the lines with her. If "you done fucked up", you'll be notified as soon as it occured.

The problem I have with ISFJs is that they have all these rules and values that are diametrically opposed to mine, which isn't that bad on its own... the actual problem is that they never tell you that you have offended their values (I'm guessing because they want to maintain the air of niceness and politeness). Of course, one magical day they can't stand the offense anymore and explode into my face, and I'm like "Where the fuck did THAT come from?"

Now I can be OK with accomodating someone whose values differ from mine (usually), but if you expect me to accommodate you by reading your mind, well then, you've just dialed a wrong number daddio.

 

[ayoitsStepho]

Sod the rest of them .. Us SJ's can enjoy the cookies. I'll just put the kettle on OK.

It is sad that people will use unhealthy types as examples when we are not all like that. I think even if you don't usually get on with a particualr type, you should still try and make the effort. They may well be surprised and in return gain a new friend. Why limit potential allies due to past experiences.

Or maybe i am just crazy, lol.

mmm yes! That would be delightful. Then we can all sit around a table and discuss how we can ruin the lives of everyone by being kind ;]

I deffinatley have to agree. I know several different types of people with different types. Their not all EXACALLY alike. Alot of it has to do with how you've grown up, experiences, what you want from life and a bunch of other things. It'd be pretty boring if we were all the same!

 

[ayoitsStepho]

My mom is a hardass ISTJ too, but there are no games or reading between the lines with her. If "you done fucked up", you'll be notified as soon as it occured.

The problem I have with ISFJs is that they have all these rules and values that are diametrically opposed to mine, which isn't that bad on its own... the actual problem is that they never tell you that you have offended their values (I'm guessing because they want to maintain the air of niceness and politeness). Of course, one magical day they can't stand the offense anymore and explode into my face, and I'm like "Where the fuck did THAT come from?"

Now I can be OK with accomodating someone whose values differ from mine (usually), but if you expect me to accommodate you by reading your mind, well then, you've just dialed a wrong number daddio.

I can understand where your comming from. Poor communication, especially in ISFJ's result in all this stuff building up and finally they explode. Its natural for us to want to keep it in, but that doesnt make it right. I know I have to constantly remind myself to address people when somethings wrong or it'll eat at me. Its all about the maturity level, because its not too mature to keep the problem inside when you can deal with it right away and be done with it.

 

[Edgar]

I can understand where your comming from. Poor communication, especially in ISFJ's result in all this stuff building up and finally they explode. Its natural for us to want to keep it in, but that doesnt make it right. I know I have to constantly remind myself to address people when somethings wrong or it'll eat at me. Its all about the maturity level, because its not too mature to keep the problem inside when you can deal with it right away and be done with it.

Yes, maturity plays a big role, especially when you are dealing with a person who views the world through a different prism.

I can handle an immature ENFP with a lot greater ease than an immature ISFJ. Not that one is better than the other, but its easy to get blindsided when someone uses a different style of communication.

 

[ayoitsStepho]

Yes, maturity plays a big role, especially when you are dealing with a person who views the world through a different prism.

I can handle an immature ENFP with a lot greater ease than an immature ISFJ. Not that one is better than the other, but its easy to get blindsided when someone uses a different style of communication.

Yes! Most deffinatley. It takes two different mature people to be able to understand eachother. I think thats what we're all here for, to be understood. Some just dont handle it well when others dont speak in their 'language', and end up hurt. I personally want to know more about others, so i have to push aside my 'feelings' for a short time to understand someone other than myself.

Yeah, i can't handle an immature ENFP. But thats because im different then them in awhole lot of ways. So it'll probably end in tears on my part lol ;] but other than that, ENFP's can be enjoyable for me.

 

[Saslou]

Now I can be OK with accomodating someone whose values differ from mine (usually), but if you expect me to accommodate you by reading your mind, well then, you've just dialed a wrong number daddio.

Touché. No time for bloody head games, say it how it is. Preferably upfront with no bullshit please.

mmm yes! That would be delightful. Then we can all sit around a table and discuss how we can ruin the lives of everyone by being kind ;]

I definatley have to agree. I know several different types of people with different types. Their not all EXACALLY alike. Alot of it has to do with how you've grown up, experiences, what you want from life and a bunch of other things. It'd be pretty boring if we were all the same!

Ruin the lives???? Oh no, i could never do that. Even people i don't like, i am still polite when speaking about them to others. I will just be kind, if that is alright with you. I will eat all your cookies though, Well i have just got my mum and sister to take the test and apparently we are all ESFJ huh, we are so similar yet different. Hmmmm. lol

 

[ayoitsStepho]

Ruin the lives???? Oh no, i could never do that. Even people i don't like, i am still polite when speaking about them to others. I will just be kind, if that is alright with you. I will eat all your cookies though, Well i have just got my mum and sister to take the test and apparently we are all ESFJ huh, we are so similar yet different. Hmmmm. lol

ah, but see apparently we bug people by being...kind. lol. go figure, you'd think people would want that. I suppose not. I could never be intentionally mean, it doesnt work for me. ;]
Well i had my mom take the test and she's an ISFJ like me...but i have some doubts...but then again maybe she's a straight up ISFJ. She deffinatley didnt give a hoot about all this. My sister is a ENFP i believe...i could be wrong since i cant remember. lol.
I'm pretty sure my dads a ENTP. So you can understand im a bit used to being ignored and such ;]

 

[Saslou]

ah, but see apparently we bug people by being...kind. lol. go figure, you'd think people would want that. I suppose not.

It is very confusing .. that is probably why i know a lot of people, but don't have many people i call friends. Maybe just 1 now.

Do you ever feel like you are living in the wrong time and place? That you seem out of place? That being traditional, kind and respectful is no longer viewed as good and honest?
(apologies, getting a bit deep there. )