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  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    So do you actually know any ISFJs or are you just making blanket generalizations based on really bad stereotypes of ISFJs?
    I know two ISFJs.

    They are being taken advantage of by their employers. This is what I meant by sheep. That was a very poor choice of words for which I apologize. I am at a loss how to help them stand up to the people using them so I am simply supporting them for now. That is not enough as it does not change the situation.

    You know the world is full of bad people who would sell you over for a pack of gum. But it seems the two ISFJs are too afraid of imaginary conflict. This is ruining their chances for financial security. In the end their inability to protect their interests means they have to sacrifice their children's interests to fund some Te a-hole's sports car. I know they don't want that.

    I was hoping you guys would give me the answer.

    I also avoid conflict and am a push over, so I am not exaggerating here.

  2. #272
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    I know two ISFJs.

    They are being taken advantage of by their employers. This is what I meant by sheep. That was a very poor choice of words for which I apologize. I am at a loss how to help them stand up to the people using them so I am simply supporting them for now. That is not enough as it does not change the situation.

    You know the world is full of bad people who would sell you over for a pack of gum. But it seems the two ISFJs are too afraid of imaginary conflict. This is ruining their chances for financial security. In the end their inability to protect their interests means they have to sacrifice their children's interests to fund some Te a-hole's sports car. I know they don't want that.

    I was hoping you guys would give me the answer.

    I also avoid conflict and am a push over, so I am not exaggerating here.
    Ok, firstly, I'd like to apologize for my rather gruff response but your initial post came off as trolling so I responded accordingly. Sorry about that

    As to your two friends: Speaking from my own experiences and why it is I might do that if I were in their situation, its either because I felt like I couldn't do better or I felt like what I got really wasn't that bad and I didn't want to rock the apple cart. Stability and security are very important to me and if I feel like I've got a sure thing going, I will often sacrifice my own happiness or pass up opportunities to better myself as the feeling of security outweighs the risk of losing what I have.

    Not that thats necessarily rational or appropriate but its often how my thinking goes.

    The most you could do for them is try to present them opportunities and appeal to their responsibilities to their families. You mentioned they had families in your post and appealing to their paternal or maternal (I don't know what genders these ISFJs are) instincts is a strong motivator.

    Ultimately if they choose not too then its their choice and there isn't anything you can do about it. They have to want to better themselves and thats something only they can do.
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

  3. #273
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    You know the world is full of bad people who would sell you over for a pack of gum. But it seems the two ISFJs are too afraid of imaginary conflict. This is ruining their chances for financial security. In the end their inability to protect their interests means they have to sacrifice their children's interests to fund some Te a-hole's sports car. I know they don't want that.
    In this greedy corporate-driven society, aren't we all doing this?

    As for avoiding conflict, ISFJs avoid it because they feel like the risk of them losing something they value is too high.

  4. #274
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post

    Whoever treats me well.
    What specifically does treating you well mean? That is, what things would someone do that you would perceive as "treating you well"?

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  5. #275
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    What specifically does treating you well mean? That is, what things would someone do that you would perceive as "treating you well"?
    By sincerely showing me that I am someone they value. There's a million different ways to show that depending on the circumstance but the best ways are the ways that I can recognize. I'd like for them to let me show them that I value them too. Consistency and loyalty means a lot to me too.

    Disclaimer: I can't speak for all ISFJs.

  6. #276
    Member CreativeCait's Avatar
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    Are ISFJs likely to get offended or hurt if they suggest for you to do something a particular way and you reject their help? (because you value independence and doing things your own way). Apparently I hurt an ISFJs feelings doing this...

  7. #277
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CreativeCait View Post
    Are ISFJs likely to get offended or hurt if they suggest for you to do something a particular way and you reject their help? (because you value independence and doing things your own way). Apparently I hurt an ISFJs feelings doing this...
    My XSFJ mom gets hurt when I refuse her offers for help.
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  8. #278
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    What specifically does treating you well mean? That is, what things would someone do that you would perceive as "treating you well"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    By sincerely showing me that I am someone they value. There's a million different ways to show that depending on the circumstance but the best ways are the ways that I can recognize. I'd like for them to let me show them that I value them too. Consistency and loyalty means a lot to me too.

    Disclaimer: I can't speak for all ISFJs.
    Exactly. Consistency is very important to me and consistently showing me you care goes a long way to ensuring my loyalty.

    "Treating me well" for me means making sure that I know you care and going out of your way to show me when I need you too. Simply telling me "You're just going to have to believe me" rings very hollow when not backed up by actions.

    Also: Do what you say . If what you say doesn't match up to your actions then I'm not going to trust you

    Quote Originally Posted by CreativeCait View Post
    Are ISFJs likely to get offended or hurt if they suggest for you to do something a particular way and you reject their help? (because you value independence and doing things your own way). Apparently I hurt an ISFJs feelings doing this...
    Sometimes, not so much for me anymore. I've long since decided that its not my job to save stupid people from themselves. If I know I'm right and you're going to ignore my advice anyway, then I'll start making preparations as to what it is I'm going to need to do when you do inevitably march off that cliff. Maybe I'll get surprised and be wrong but it usually doesn't happen that way
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
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  9. #279
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    By sincerely showing me that I am someone they value. There's a million different ways to show that depending on the circumstance but the best ways are the ways that I can recognize. I'd like for them to let me show them that I value them too. Consistency and loyalty means a lot to me too.

    Disclaimer: I can't speak for all ISFJs.
    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    Exactly. Consistency is very important to me and consistently showing me you care goes a long way to ensuring my loyalty.

    "Treating me well" for me means making sure that I know you care and going out of your way to show me when I need you too. Simply telling me "You're just going to have to believe me" rings very hollow when not backed up by actions.

    Also: Do what you say . If what you say doesn't match up to your actions then I'm not going to trust you
    This is a good start. What are the million things that someone can do to show you they care - going out of their way to do so? There must be some common themes or examples you can provide. On this question of "show me you care," I believe different people want very different things.

    Also, what do you mean by consistency? Consistency in what way?

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  10. #280
    Member CreativeCait's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    Sometimes, not so much for me anymore. I've long since decided that its not my job to save stupid people from themselves. If I know I'm right and you're going to ignore my advice anyway, then I'll start making preparations as to what it is I'm going to need to do when you do inevitably march off that cliff. Maybe I'll get surprised and be wrong but it usually doesn't happen that way
    Oh, I should have explained better. It was over a very little thing. How I was packing up something. I didn't ask for help or advice but they were telling me how to do it. That's why I didn't think it was a big deal when I ignored it and said I was doing it a different way. I didn't think twice but later someone told me the ISFJ was upset over the way I reacted to their offer of help...

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