[ESFJ] Ask an ESFJ too!

[strychnine]

My ESFJ friend has been very depressed lately. He started seeing a counselor, which is great, but... he is still incessantly comparing himself to other people -- people who get better grades, more/better lab positions, etc. In other words, he wants to have everyone's strengths and none of their weaknesses. Icing on the cake: he faults himself for being depressed and says he "shouldn't" be this way.

I seem to spend most of my life living by my own internal definition of who I am and how I "should" be. I don't really give a shit what other people expect me to do, what other people are doing, etc. My friend however doesn't see it this way -- I think he expects his strengths/weaknesses to align perfectly with those of the other people in our program/year (we're in university). He dismisses those strengths that lie outside this norm/standard and faults himself when he doesn't meet the standard in other areas. Honestly, he does not seem to know himself. He lives by an external standard and this is what I think has caused his depression issues.

What causes this comparison of internal self to external standard? Is it common to ESFJs?

More importantly: what can I do to be more, uh, sympathetic or comforting? I am a terrible empathizer. TIA

 

[Saslou]

How do ESFJs cope with being in a rut?

Look for distractions. When i'm stuck in a rut, i'll drive myself insane. For example i have a week off work now and i can't get a last minute holiday, my kids are boring so i will be staying at home with nothing to do. It's my first day of holiday, its 9am and i'm twitching, lol.
Just got to find the funny side of it all and eventually that rut goes away. That's the idealistic side of me speaking.

My ESFJ friend has been very depressed lately. He started seeing a counselor, which is great, but... he is still incessantly comparing himself to other people -- people who get better grades, more/better lab positions, etc. In other words, he wants to have everyone's strengths and none of their weaknesses. Icing on the cake: he faults himself for being depressed and says he "shouldn't" be this way.

I seem to spend most of my life living by my own internal definition of who I am and how I "should" be. I don't really give a shit what other people expect me to do, what other people are doing, etc. My friend however doesn't see it this way -- I think he expects his strengths/weaknesses to align perfectly with those of the other people in our program/year (we're in university). He dismisses those strengths that lie outside this norm/standard and faults himself when he doesn't meet the standard in other areas. Honestly, he does not seem to know himself. He lives by an external standard and this is what I think has caused his depression issues.

What causes this comparison of internal self to external standard? Is it common to ESFJs?

More importantly: what can I do to be more, uh, sympathetic or comforting? I am a terrible empathizer. TIA

In my case yes .. I have moments where i don't give a shit about the external world. If i want to dress quirky then i will but at other times, i do get to that point of thinking where i am worried what others think of me. I care what others think when i am insecure in myself, so i look for some kind of confirmation to pick myself up but i know i can't rely on another human to do this for me. It needs to all come from me alone. As i've got older and from going through major life events, i'm doing better .. I think anyway, lol

You can't help another persons depression .. Been there, done that .. Can't save everyone. If someone is depressed around me, i try and show them the positives but ultimately it's up to them to find ways to get better. It is also soooooo mentally draining so just make sure you give yourself some time to recharge

 

[Chaotic Harmony]

How do ESFJs cope with being in a rut?

Research and socializing. If it's a rut where I just don't know where to go from there, then I'll research the hell out of all my options and then figure out what I need to do to get out of the rut... If it's something that I'm just stuck in a rut and there isn't really any research to get over it, I'll surround myself with friends. (This is my distraction, like saslou mentioned we like distractions)

What causes this comparison of internal self to external standard? Is it common to ESFJs?

More importantly: what can I do to be more, uh, sympathetic or comforting? I am a terrible empathizer. TIA

I am forever comparing myself to others. And I honestly don't give myself enough credit most of the time. I can't even explain why I do it. I guess I'm just looking for what the "norm" would be considered, and try and compare myself to it. Even though, most of the time, the norm is nowhere near what I want to be.

Most of the time, the best thing my friends can do for me when I'm in one of my phases (like I am now) is to just let me know that they are there for me. A lot of the time I'll work my way out of the funk on my own.

 

[strychnine]

In my case yes .. I have moments where i don't give a shit about the external world. If i want to dress quirky then i will but at other times, i do get to that point of thinking where i am worried what others think of me. I care what others think when i am insecure in myself, so i look for some kind of confirmation to pick myself up but i know i can't rely on another human to do this for me. It needs to all come from me alone. As i've got older and from going through major life events, i'm doing better .. I think anyway, lol

You can't help another persons depression .. Been there, done that .. Can't save everyone. If someone is depressed around me, i try and show them the positives but ultimately it's up to them to find ways to get better. It is also soooooo mentally draining so just make sure you give yourself some time to recharge

Interesting... I would think my friend is very insecure at this point unfortunately. However, I agree, I can't really "fix" him nor do I want to. It's up to him. I think I am going to try and remind him of the many positive traits he does have (and there are, of course, many)... he seems to forget them. Thanks saslou.

I am forever comparing myself to others. And I honestly don't give myself enough credit most of the time. I can't even explain why I do it. I guess I'm just looking for what the "norm" would be considered, and try and compare myself to it. Even though, most of the time, the norm is nowhere near what I want to be.

Now that I think of it, this might be common to people with strong Fe.

Most of the time, the best thing my friends can do for me when I'm in one of my phases (like I am now) is to just let me know that they are there for me. A lot of the time I'll work my way out of the funk on my own.

I hope your "phase" ends soon . Thanks for this response. I will be sure to let my friend know I am there... I want him to know he can "vent" to me any time and I don't mind.

Thank you both

 

[Chaotic Harmony]

I hope your "phase" ends soon . Thanks for this response. I will be sure to let my friend know I am there... I want him to know he can "vent" to me any time and I don't mind.

Thank you both

Thanks! My phase did end. I'm actually quite amazed. I guess I've grown up a lot since the last time I lost a pet. The last time I lost a pet I moped around the house for months. This time once the decision was made and we put her down, I felt a lot better. I knew it was for the best. And I saw pictures of her last night where she was at a healthy weight and her fur was perfect, and I realized she had been way too skinny and her fur wasn't as pretty as it used to be.

I've been a lot better yesterday and today.... Then again.... I do get to go to a cake tasting tonight! Who can be sad when they have that to look forward to!?

 

[strychnine]

Thanks! My phase did end. I'm actually quite amazed. I guess I've grown up a lot since the last time I lost a pet. The last time I lost a pet I moped around the house for months. This time once the decision was made and we put her down, I felt a lot better. I knew it was for the best. And I saw pictures of her last night where she was at a healthy weight and her fur was perfect, and I realized she had been way too skinny and her fur wasn't as pretty as it used to be.

I've been a lot better yesterday and today.... Then again.... I do get to go to a cake tasting tonight! Who can be sad when they have that to look forward to!?

Oh my gosh...I am so sorry for your loss. I am glad you are doing better though.

I don't meant to compare situations. But I had a cat who died back in January...we ended up putting him down, he was in too much pain near the end... but I agree that it is for the better. I believe in minimizing suffering and maximizing happiness.

 

[Saslou]

I guess I'm just looking for what the "norm" would be considered, and try and compare myself to it. Even though, most of the time, the norm is nowhere near what I want to be.

Sorry to hear about your loss

The above really jumped out at me as especially over the last few days i have been thinking about what you've mentioned.

I don't want to be normal and i feel like my uniqueness has to stay inside as on the outside i have to conform to what is normal so i fit in with everyone.

For example .. I've been on a crazy spending spree over the last 2 days and brought some amazingly odd clothes. I love them . I was trying on these clothes last night as I'm going to a barbeque later today and i'm not going to wear them now, the clothes are too out there so i am going to play it safe as usual. I don't feel like i am being true/authentic to myself and that sucks.

How do you deal with that feeling?

 

[tulula998]

This is the biggest difference I've noticed between my ESFJ friends and me:

When you talk to a (nice) ESFJ for the first time, they open right up and are friendly and welcome you into their group with open arms. It's as if you've been friends for years. If you open up to them in that first meeting, they react very kindly and appropriately.

When you talk to an ESTJ for the first time, they're not as open with you. They might talk about more shallow things. They might not try very hard to keep a conversation going if it isn't working out. In other words, no matter how friendly they are, you can tell that they're keeping their distance from you (emotionally speaking, anyways). If you open up to them on that first meeting, they get bewildered (even if they don't show it), and might react a bit too coldly.

But that might not be true in all cases.

I agree. As an ESTJ, when I'm first meeting someone, yes, I can be friendly but I won't start telling them about my life history. It'll be surface talk, and if I'm asked questions about myself, my answers are somewhat short and I tend to redirect the attention to them and ask them the questions. But I do love people and meeting them. I just won't open up to anyone unless I'm comfortable with them.

 

[Chaotic Harmony]

Sorry to hear about your loss

The above really jumped out at me as especially over the last few days i have been thinking about what you've mentioned.

I don't want to be normal and i feel like my uniqueness has to stay inside as on the outside i have to conform to what is normal so i fit in with everyone.

For example .. I've been on a crazy spending spree over the last 2 days and brought some amazingly odd clothes. I love them . I was trying on these clothes last night as I'm going to a barbeque later today and i'm not going to wear them now, the clothes are too out there so i am going to play it safe as usual. I don't feel like i am being true/authentic to myself and that sucks.

How do you deal with that feeling?

Sigh... I almost always cave into that feeling and just play it safe like you mentioned. I have clothes in my closet that end up going to a thrift store because after buying them a year or so ago I never wore them because I never felt right in them. I always joke that someone in a thrift store is making out like a bandit because of me. They are getting clothes that have been worn maybe once or twice and are in near perfect condition for way less than half the price I paid for them.

Then again.... You are talking about a person who won't go to the gym in mismatched colors... So I'm even concerned with appearance in a gym setting.

 

[Saslou]

Then again.... You are talking about a person who won't go to the gym in mismatched colors... So I'm even concerned with appearance in a gym setting.

Awww, lol .. What's a gym? I went to one last year and quickly got bored. Story of my life.

I couldn't care less what i look like in a gym .. I'm going to get hot and sweaty just like everyone else.

Another question for you (hope you don't mind ) .. How do you feel about change??

I ask because although i know it is inevitable and can easily tell others to embrace it .. It scares me especially when i am facing change alone. I get caught up in the details and what if's that i freeze.
I think i may of misplaced my bold, brash, go get them, fear nothing attitude, lol

 

[Chaotic Harmony]

Awww, lol .. What's a gym? I went to one last year and quickly got bored. Story of my life.

I couldn't care less what i look like in a gym .. I'm going to get hot and sweaty just like everyone else.

Another question for you (hope you don't mind ) .. How do you feel about change??

I ask because although i know it is inevitable and can easily tell others to embrace it .. It scares me especially when i am facing change alone. I get caught up in the details and what if's that i freeze.
I think i may of misplaced my bold, brash, go get them, fear nothing attitude, lol

LoL, I practically live at my gym now. I guess seeing results this time around has really made a difference in how often I go.

I really don't mind change. The only time I have a problem with it is when I don't have warning that it's coming. Like, my boss or a coworker telling me about change the day it goes into affect when they've known for weeks. :steam: A little warning would be nice!

 

[Quinlan]

So why? how? when...

Ok I don't really have a question just wanted to say ESFJs = awesome!

 

[Redbone]

What is this closeness you ESFJs speak of in a relationship?

My soon-to-be former partner has always said that I hold him at arms' length. I asked him what else would he like me to do to be closer and he couldn't really tell me.

So what do you want? (I know everyone will have their own ideas of what this is).

 

[Malice]

Sounds to me like your partner feels like you're not being emotionally available enough. I don't know how long you've been together, or what kinds of things you two generally discuss, but to me 'being held at arms length' comes off as your being too reserved about topics and situations that the ESFJ may feel are crucial to the relationship.

Taking a stab in the dark - These topics might be rooted around how you feel about them and the relationship as a whole. It's possible he takes your reserved nature as a sign that you don't trust him and aren't willing to let him in past your personal barrier, which to an ESFJ is absolutely maddening. But that's something you two will just have to discuss.

I would advise trying to be a little more open about your feelings, coupled with small gestures to make the ESFJ feel like a valued and appreciated part of your life. Surprise him with movie tickets, maybe dinner, spend a little time being cozy or something else you think he would appreciate [you know him better than I do ] In either case, communication is key. So keep those lines open and don't give up.

Good luck.

 

[Saslou]

What is this closeness you ESFJs speak of in a relationship?

Lol .. If you talked to an ex of mine, you'd be told i am cold and distant. I am not, i just require loyalty, trust and love and i'm not really picky when to comes to the other stuff. I am rather flexible with most stuff if explained in a manner that i don't perceive as controlling. Control me and i'll run a mile.

I am a giver and get so much joy seeing the smile on your face. I do get taken aback when someone does something sincere for me .. Like leaving a gooey love note or buying flowers for no reason, not used to it. Hard to believe, under this titanium exterior that i am sick romantic .. I enjoy spending time with my partner, be it curling up on the sofa chatting rubbish or asking a complicated question and listening for 20 mins to the reply. I can spend years with you and still enjoy your company, if i like you that much. Although i enjoy fucking you, i want to caress your body that i've touched so many times before, to me, it's still new. I walk talk, proud to have you on my arm. I require open communication at all times (i know i am a bugger and will ask a question at such the wrong time and can hold back in fear of upsetting you). I have no problem with you having your own space, but when you come into my space, please be here in mind, body and spirit .. I'll pick it up and become resentful.

It's hard to put into words something that comes to me so easily .. I hope that helps.

 

[strychnine]

If there are any ESFJ males around here, can you please field this one? Thanks.

Did you think at any point you were ESTJ?

I am basing this question on one of my male ESFJ friends. He tested ESTJ and insists he is ESTJ; however, he is clearly Fe dom. (He doesn't know the functions.) I think it may be common among SFJ males to think they are STJ, because SFJs can tend to internalize societal norms/ expectations and conform or appear to conform to those -- and we know that society (unfairly) demands that men be more T. It's possible that strong internalization of this, to a higher degree than what I've seen on this forum, could lead to ESFJ males insisting they are ESTJ.

 

[mrcockburn]

1. Why do so many ESFJs take disagreements personally, and get all emotional/hysterical over any little debate? Too many ESFJs I know start screaming and guilt-tripping at the same time the minute you offer a contrary opinion.

2. Why do so many of you succumb to peer pressure or bend backwards for people so easily? For example, you guys also get overly affected by pity for others and do STUPID things because of it. (Like let a bum friend live in your house for a year because you "feel terrible for him".) I know it's the Fe, but you guys aren't robots. WHY would you sacrifice a perfectly correct decision and inconvenience yourself for group harmony? Acting nice is one thing, but you guys actually carry it out!

3. Why do you bemoan things you just can't change? It serves no purpose.

4. Toy poodles + pink sundresses. Explain.

 

[Chaotic Harmony]

1. Why do so many ESFJs take disagreements personally, and get all emotional/hysterical over any little debate? Too many ESFJs I know start screaming and guilt-tripping at the same time the minute you offer a contrary opinion.

I usually play devil's advocate to create debates... Even when I'm on the other person's side. I only guilt trip my mom, it's all in fun when we do it.

2. Why do so many of you succumb to peer pressure or bend backwards for people so easily? For example, you guys also get overly affected by pity for others and do STUPID things because of it. (Like let a bum friend live in your house for a year because you "feel terrible for him".) I know it's the Fe, but you guys aren't robots. WHY would you sacrifice a perfectly correct decision and inconvenience yourself for group harmony? Acting nice is one thing, but you guys actually carry it out!

I don't succumb to peer pressure. If I don't agree with something, I will walk away and have nothing to do with it. I only bend over backwards to make people I care about happy. I have my breaking points. Like, I've told my fiance that if he continues to pay his brother's child support when we get our house there is going to be a lot of tension between the two of us. He's promised me that he plans on talking to his brother and telling him to pay his own child support. And the fiance is an INFP...

3. Why do you bemoan things you just can't change? It serves no purpose.

Maybe I'm more laid back, but I'm not a big fan of trying to change things that clearly aren't going to change...

4. Toy poodles + pink sundresses. Explain.

No clue! I'm a tom-boy till I die! So I'm more of a German Shepherd or other big dog and baseball t-shirt!

 

[Saslou]

1. Why do so many ESFJs take disagreements personally, and get all emotional/hysterical over any little debate? Too many ESFJs I know start screaming and guilt-tripping at the same time the minute you offer a contrary opinion.

I love a good debate .. I do take disagreements personally if i feel you are attacking me unnecessarily for example because you are in a shitty mood. I don't shout anymore, i get a bigger kick by walking away, i know it'll piss you even more, lol

Why do so many of you succumb to peer pressure or bend backwards for people so easily? For example, you guys also get overly affected by pity for others and do STUPID things because of it. (Like let a bum friend live in your house for a year because you "feel terrible for him".) I know it's the Fe, but you guys aren't robots. WHY would you sacrifice a perfectly correct decision and inconvenience yourself for group harmony? Acting nice is one thing, but you guys actually carry it out!

Peer pressure's good if it involves fun
Bending over backwards .. Sometimes i'm too nice for my own good. My sister came and lived with me, a week later i told her to leave. I am learning to be more selfish so group harmony can bollocks. Maybe it's karma, maybe i was a serial killer in my past life and in this one i have to be stupidly nice to everyone .. Nahhhhh, lol

Why do you bemoan things you just can't change? It serves no purpose.

I'm a type 6

Toy poodles + pink sundresses. Explain.

I think it is perfectly ridiculous that you should want to dress your toy poodles in pink sun dresses .. May i offer you some of my medication, lol

Seriously though .. I like kitties and the only thing i own that is pink is one bra.

I must now leave to scrub myself clean

 

[Redbone]

ESFJs how do you get people to just "do" stuff for you? I have always been wowed by this. My ex can call someone and ask for help and almost always gets it. He called a guy that used to work with my dad...hadn't seen/talk to this man in years and yet he calls him (he has a million people on his phone) and the guy readily agrees to help!
My Mom was an ESFJ, too. Despite getting into trouble with her alcoholic escapades, she always managed to convince people she was a lady that had fallen upon misfortune. They'd start sobbing and immediately do something to try to help her. Unfortunately, even the therapists she saw were taken in by this crap! I couldn't believe it--why couldn't they see through all that crap?

How do you do it? I'm amazed at the "ask and you shall receive"? Are y'all just hoodwinking people? I remember when I first met my ex and he was just so polite, smooth, and charming. He acted like I slapped him when I said, "You're really sweet...you'd make a great con-man."