User Tag List

123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 40

  1. #1
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    2,591

    Default Non Traditional SJs!

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...d-society.html

    Inspired by sofmarhof's comment, SJ,s please let the TypoC know ways that you fit or don't fit what are deemed traditional roles.

  2. #2
    Senior Member sofmarhof's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    327

    Default

    Well if no actual SJ's want to contribute, here's what I said about my SJ friend:

    Quote Originally Posted by sofmarhof View Post
    I have a friend who's a very nontraditional ISTJ. She didn't have a happy childhood, and I think basically around 13-14 she figured out that the values her parents were handing down to her weren't right, so she replaced them with another set of values which she will never waver from. She is now very set in her ways, having the beliefs of a liberal but the tenacity in believing them of an ultra-conservative.
    And here's some elaboration:

    She's very pro-responsible-drug-use, and wants everything to be legalized, and thinks driving while high is a terrible thing to do, because it's detrimental to "the cause."

    She's got a book shelf full of Voltaire, Camus, Nietzsche, and also contemporary guys like Chuck Palahniuk. So, obviously, not averse to theoretical things. The thing is, I never see her reading them. I'm sure she's read them many times so I don't hold it against her, but it must be sentimentality that makes her keep those books around, since she's not doing it for ease of reference. I never see her buy new books, either. Not a voracious seeker of new ideas. She has Voltaire as her computer desktop and a framed picture of him on the wall. She's also obsessed with the Joker from Batman, "because he's an existential absurdist."

    She likes things that would offend your grandmother, like It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia and the aforementioned Chuck Palahniuk, but Cannibal Holocaust was too much (she's been a vegetarian since age 7 or something).

    She's in film school, but only really likes writing movies and hates being in charge of any group production project. When another friend had big project, this girl wanted to be in charge of keeping everyone fed and keeping the house they were all staying in clean; she didn't want any other responsibilities. She really doesn't like having to come up with an idea when there are any constraints, such as having to shoot outdoors or having to do a chase scene.

    She is the most responsible person out of our friend group, but constantly protests that she's not a responsible person (except toward her cats). She is very vocal about never wanting children, but she acts like a mother to all of our immature guy friends. She does all the cleaning. She takes charge of the bills. Despite her professed love of alcohol she never gets drunk at parties because she's too busy making sure nobody dies or wrecks the apartment, even when the party's at somebody else's place.

    So everybody else! Describe your favorite non-traditional SJs! Because guess what—they exist!

  3. #3
    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    584

    Default

    Yeah... actually I don't think I've known an SJ that thought of themselves as non-traditional, who didn't in fact just follow traditional routes of non-conformism, if you know what I mean?

    That is, they might've rejected the 9 to 5, the white picket fences and all that, but they simply exchanged it for some other stereotype... for example one I know who decided to homeschool her kids and only THEN did she suddenly take up an abiding interest in knitting, veganism, protest marches, Eastern religions, eco-living, organic food growing, staying in communes, etc etc... "because round these parts, that's what most of the homeschoolers are into", and she "wanted to fit in" (her words). Before she had a terrible experience with the school system here, she had all her kids in school with spotless uniforms, took them in every day in her SUV, and totally bought into the whole deal, went to the parent governors' meetings in her pearls and twinset like all the other respectable, middle class mums.

    Another guy I know, an SJ who likes to think of himself as non-traditional, decided in university that he'd define himself in opposition to "mainstream culture", and to this day sticks dogmatically to the idea that ANYONE who wears a suit and tie is a sell-out - he has nothing to say to them or to learn from them, that no good music has been made since Woodstock (except Led Zeppelin), that growing his hair long is "sticking it to the man", and he reads prolifically... on all the subjects that his social group at university decided were cool, back in like 1975. He doesn't just have a mental age of 19 or so, but he's actually stuck to the particular historic 19-year-old's mentality that he adopted to fit in with mainstream university culture. He often waxes nostalgic for "those days", and boasts how "that's how it was in the uni's back then, everyone was cool..." IOW his "rebellion" was simply mainstream for the environment he was in at the time, and he's stuck to it because it became routine to him and he doesn't like to change.

    So... well I don't discount that there are SJ's who are genuinely adventurous, carving out their own path, rather than just sticking to established rules about whatever position in society they decide to adopt (be it mainstream or otherwise), I have to say I'm yet to meet one...
    I'm male and over 30, FYI.
    Preferences: 20% Extravert, 98% Intuitive, 68% Thinker, 17% Perceiving

  4. #4
    Senior Member sofmarhof's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    327

    Default

    Ack. Authenticity, nonconformity, pretentiousness, none of those labels mean anything anymore. "Typical hippie, what a conformist!" It's like when somebody says, "X is pretentious," and then I say "People who accuse people of being pretentious are themselves pretentious," and then somebody points out that my statement is pretentious as well... like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel... The very ISTJ friend I have about complains about the pretentiousness of others, and is embarassed at her 14-yeal-old self for going to protests and trying to be a punk

    The stereotype that SJs are all ultra-traditonal, white-picket-fence-having churchgoers is so pervasive on this forum that even if we just show a few SJs who are "typical hippies" it would still be a leap forward.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ISFJ
    Posts
    6,020

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sofmarhof View Post
    Ack. Authenticity, nonconformity, pretentiousness, none of those labels mean anything anymore. "Typical hippie, what a conformist!" It's like when somebody says, "X is pretentious," and then I say "People who accuse people of being pretentious are themselves pretentious," and then somebody points out that my statement is pretentious as well... like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel... The very ISTJ friend I have about complains about the pretentiousness of others, and is embarassed at her 14-yeal-old self for going to protests and trying to be a punk

    The stereotype that SJs are all ultra-traditonal, white-picket-fence-having churchgoers is so pervasive on this forum that even if we just show a few SJs who are "typical hippies" it would still be a leap forward.
    Either way, they're dumb.

  6. #6
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    LoLz
    Posts
    2,523

    Default

    Do people seem to forget that the word traditional is subjective and that the act of adhering to a tradition does not necessarily require you to adhere to certain things that most people would see as a tradition?

    I break traditions all the time. I dissect the crap out of religions and analyze why people do things over and over again. The goal of my life is EFFECTIVENESS AND SUSTAINABILITY. I work at a department store, but my work ethic is MUCH different from the feelers that I work with. Doesn't that break tradition? There are very concrete and laid out reasons for why a sales associate exists. My duties are outlined, and I see absolutely no reason to allow a personal confrontation with a customer affect how I perform.

    I break tradition everyday in that respect. I'm happy, friendly, relaxed, comfortable yet not emotional with customers because it interferes with my work ethic.


  7. #7
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    2,591

    Default

    I don't want to write a list of things that prove I'm not traditional....but I can't say that I am. I've thought about it. I think tradition is subjective, like raz.

    I'm definitely not a person who does things because 'it's what's done'. I HATE that. I do things because there's a good reason to do it. It has to make some kind of sense to me and the end result that I'm trying to attain.

    It's a combination of inaccurate printed SJ descriptions and people looking at their parents, teachers and Bosses that give SJs these loser-like descriptions.

  8. #8

    Default

    I'm not traditional in a sense that I don't see the point in keeping up with what's considered traditional when you can be your own than having to follow certain roles and what you have to do. Certain gender roles are applied, it should be equal between males and females in an effort to strive to become better and do what needs to be done rather than fuss about which roles gets who and who does who. Anyway, my opinion's put in this and there's no reason for being traditional.

  9. #9
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    ISTx
    Posts
    10,552

    Default

    I'm pretty non-traditional I'd say, but at the same time pretty blatantly SJ a lot of the time (although not as much these days as I used to be). My S/N and J/P divide is pretty balanced.

    Tradition for the sake of "tradition" usually seems silly to me.

  10. #10
    Member Himself's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Socionics
    INTp
    Posts
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sofmarhof View Post
    Well if no actual SJ's want to contribute, here's what I said about my SJ friend: <snip>
    An SJ who reads Camus and Nietzsche, wants to legalize responsible drug use, and still has her head firmly on her shoulders in the stereotypical SJ fashion?

    Where do I sign up?
    MBTI Expressions: I: 100%; N: 89%; T: 74%; P: 89%
    Enneagram: 5w4 so/sx
    Socionics: INTp (ILI)

    Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal.

Similar Threads

  1. [SJ] A theory about SJs and mistyping
    By Zeego in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 12-13-2016, 03:42 PM
  2. [SJ] What annoys you about non-SJs?
    By NewEra in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 10-13-2009, 02:27 PM
  3. [SJ] SJ's and tradition.
    By Athenian200 in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 12-28-2008, 11:12 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO