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  1. #1
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Default ISTJs Explained By ISTJs: Post your questions here!

    The more I get into TypoC, the more I see how grossly misunderstood my type is.

    In order to help dispel any misunderstandings about the Guardians, please post your questions here, and at the least I'll try to give you an objective, unbiased answer. Being that I'm a 31 year old male, I have some experience to back up what I'm saying, not just speculation. Of course all of the other ISTJs on this board are welcome to share their thoughts and experiences.

    Hopefully this is a helpful thread.

  2. #2
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    I find that most people who do the SJ bashing are not interested in understanding SJs in general. Mostly they want to play the rare and special victim because there are certain easy perks and rewards that come with acting that way. And to continue with those rewards they have to create and keep up an "Us. Vs. them" attitude so they won't ever be interested in understanding and getting along with SJ's.

    You'll find that the people who do want to understand SJs will come to the SJ section and ask genuine questions themselves and won't do any S or SJ bashing. They know it's stupid.

  3. #3
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    I find that most people who do the SJ bashing are not interested in understanding SJs in general. Mostly they want to play the rare and special victim because there are certain easy perks and rewards that come with acting that way. And to continue with those rewards they have to create and keep up an "Us. Vs. them" attitude so they won't ever be interested in understanding and getting along with SJ's.

    You'll find that the people who do want to understand SJs will come to the SJ section and ask genuine questions themselves and won't do any S or SJ bashing. They know it's stupid.

    Giggly, you know it's funny I can see that permeated in some of the attitudes. But this is out here for those that really want to know.

  4. #4
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    Ok... do ISTJs follow Norms of Society, or Norms of What They Know (Values [Fi], Family, Traditions....)

  5. #5
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    Ok... do ISTJs follow Norms of Society, or Norms of What They Know (Values [Fi], Family, Traditions....)
    Good question. Thanks

    ISTJs follow norms, not based on society or traditions, but what they themselves have accepted as 'normal'. I think we have this reputation due to the earliest observations of type showing ISTJs most tied to what was normal and acceptable at that time. But that's not the case.

    ISTJs don't just blindly follow any and everything. Most of the time, they are the last to join the crowd- if they join at all. Before accepting anything, they have to be won over, in a sense. You win them over by a combination of experience and facts, not just one or the other. Since that's the case, you cannot typify or expect us to all be alike- facts are constant, and in most cases, unchanging, but experiences of ISTJs differ like everyone else. So it's very easy to have a group of ISTJs and all of them differ in their 'norms'.

  6. #6
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    Good question. Thanks

    ISTJs follow norms, not based on society or traditions, but what they themselves have accepted as 'normal'. I think we have this reputation due to the earliest observations of type showing ISTJs most tied to what was normal and acceptable at that time. But that's not the case.

    ISTJs don't just blindly follow any and everything. Most of the time, they are the last to join the crowd- if they join at all. Before accepting anything, they have to be won over, in a sense. You win them over by a combination of experience and facts, not just one or the other. Since that's the case, you cannot typify or expect us to all be alike- facts are constant, and in most cases, unchanging, but experiences of ISTJs differ like everyone else. So it's very easy to have a group of ISTJs and all of them differ in their 'norms'.
    Great answer! Thanks

  7. #7
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    I follow norms that I observe from other people or from what has been done before. Since I lack the intuition or adaptability to grasp something quickly without prior knowledge, I have to do research, survey what I'm going to get into, find out how others do it, how others have reacted to it, how well it's worked. This is just an information gathering stage, though for me. I follow norms that allow my life to function properly, and rely greatly on the norms that are reliable and predictable.

    However, as I look at something that I'm going to accept as fact or as a new skill, it goes through two levels of analysis, the extraverted thinking and introverted feeling. I have to objectively analyze it in terms of cause and effect, logical systems and predictable reality. Once it's been scrutinized by logic and "perfected," I have to put it through another level of analysis to make it morally sound.

    Unless it's absolutely 100% required for my task at hand, I will not do something that asks me to degrade another human being or betray myself. I have a personal responsibility as a human being to treat everyone around me as an equal and look at them through objective eyes....without the consequences of not following social norms or sound logical reasoning. The reason I do this, is because I have to stop and think about that person feels without the external problem that is making me judge them. Those problems can be changed or fixed, if they are important enough, but a human being is more important than anything and deserves compassion.

    Everyone is capable of doing anything, belonging to anything or having any external object to describe them. Using their logical reasoning skills or a social categorization as a method of evaluating a person is flawed and illogical because it completely ignores the unique aspect of free will. This is likely why I will have a hard time understanding Fe for the rest of my life. I use Si and Te to reduce the impersonal parts of my life to cut and dry systems so that I can see what is absolutely required. I see no problem with that because I'm still able to live as a normal human being that is able to employ empathy in human relations. Introverted Feeling can be complicated, but it can be even more complicated when you view its usage in an IxTJ.


  8. #8
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    .

    Everyone is capable of doing anything, belonging to anything or having any external object to describe them. Using their logical reasoning skills or a social categorization as a method of evaluating a person is flawed and illogical because it completely ignores the unique aspect of free will. This is likely why I will have a hard time understanding Fe for the rest of my life. I use Si and Te to reduce the impersonal parts of my life to cut and dry systems so that I can see what is absolutely required. I see no problem with that because I'm still able to live as a normal human being that is able to employ empathy in human relations. Introverted Feeling can be complicated, but it can be even more complicated when you view its usage in an IxTJ.
    I would love to hear more about the bolded sections. But maybe use NF language because sometimes my head hurts when I see so much "T" language

  9. #9
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    I would love to hear more about the bolded sections. But maybe use NF language because sometimes my head hurts when I see so much "T" language
    I tend to divide my relations with other people into categories of personal relation. How much do they mean to me? Do they have a strong emotional attachment to me or is my relationship with them necessary for an impersonal obligation, i.e. a hobby or career? A stronger emotional attachment just increases my sense of responsibility to the person. Dealing with a person in an impersonal relationship is like playing chess, making strategic moves for desired outcomes.

    If you evaluate a person's worth as a human being by their ability to do complex mental work that a certain personality would find simple, then you are evaluating them against a system that just plain doesn't come naturally to them. It doesn't make sense. I'd rather evaluate someone by their character if it were a personal relationship because their ability to deal with any given situation or their sense of morals is far more important to me as sufficient evaluation. Everything that we do is external, based on perception and personal preference, no one is better than anyone else because we only limit ourselves to what we're capable of perceiving or understanding.

    This topic is more relevant to me because I was in an argument with my ESFJ mother about our neighbors. She found out our neighbors are low income country people that she finds to be....weird? Somehow she doesn't like living in this neighborhood because of it and I tried convincing her that even though I approve of her moving at any time, I will not approve of her moving for the wrong reason. She was not in the position to place judgment on the people in her neighborhood just because she was incapable of understanding what their lifestyle meant to them. I would let her move if the neighborhood was unsafe or something more impersonal, but she was wanting to move based on a social categorization that was morally wrong and illogical.

    I can go and join a club that people don't like, or place myself in a situation, any situation where people could associate my surroundings with my personality or character, but that is so ignorant that I just refuse to be associated with people who will make those types of deductions. For instance, my mother again asked me how I could buy power ranger toys in the afternoon, play with them in the car, then want to go out drinking later that night. Associating those 2 things as not being associated due to a social category is just stupid. Those two interest do not affect each other. The social categories are just....ineffective in my mind. My association with anything in the world does not change me as a person. I change me as a person.


  10. #10
    Member Sam Spade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    I find that most people who do the SJ bashing are not interested in understanding SJs in general. Mostly they want to play the rare and special victim because there are certain easy perks and rewards that come with acting that way. And to continue with those rewards they have to create and keep up an "Us. Vs. them" attitude so they won't ever be interested in understanding and getting along with SJ's.
    Here's a typical example of that:

    IMDb :: Boards :: A Serious Man (2009) :: Meyers Briggs and ASM
    "Knights had no meaning in this game. It wasn't a game for knights."

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