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[MBTI General] ISTJs Explained By ISTJs: Post your questions here!

IZthe411

Carerra Lu
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
2,585
MBTI Type
INTJ
No, they do mean it. But if I'm wired to value having it said to me frequently does it really matter? And ENFP love is also expressed in actions. Just more abstractly like sticking up for one's values rather than more concrete S stuff.


My feelings never really dictate the end justifies the means. Fi and Te are both judging yes, but they do it differently. That's the very basis of typology.


And what it means to have trust is what matters. Not the word trust. What being loyal entails is what really matters, not the word.


I wasn't just talking about ISTJ/ENFP (although I used them in the example)- no matter your type, you have judgements based on your perception towards another's idea of values.

I agree there's more to both trust and loyalty than the word. But again, if your trust and my trust are different (usually one person's perception of trust emcompasses more of themselves than the other) then you will assess (judge) that I'm not trusting enough, or you can't trust me because I'm not giving you adequate trust. It's very subjective, and you as an ENFP are looking for someone who will meet your definition of trust.
 

gigi_xo

New member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
376
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w3
what are istj's like when angry?

ive read the angry intj thread

maybe this is how ill figure out my ex's type :)
 

raz

Let's make this showy!
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
2,523
MBTI Type
LoLz
Get me angry and Fi/Ne get turned off completely. I get locked into Si and fire off Te like crazy without second thoughts. Everything has to be EXACTLY right, almost EVERYTHING is wrong, everyone around me is incompetent and there's little tolerance for adjustment in plans. It basically fucks up the natural order that allows us to use Si/Te/Fi/Ne on a regular basis and throws them completely out of order.

Oh, but when I'm angry, my focus is HEIGHTENED. Anger triggers extreme tunnel vision.
 

Moiety

New member
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
5,996
MBTI Type
ISFJ
I agree there's more to both trust and loyalty than the word. But again, if your trust and my trust are different (usually one person's perception of trust emcompasses more of themselves than the other) then you will assess (judge) that I'm not trusting enough, or you can't trust me because I'm not giving you adequate trust. It's very subjective, and you as an ENFP are looking for someone who will meet your definition of trust.

Yes, and as someone in love you are looking to justify that trust. You are willing to trust, often times without getting a full picture of the other person. I guess what I'm saying is that love can play tricks on either person, making them tolerate something they wouldn't in someone they didn't love.
 

IZthe411

Carerra Lu
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
2,585
MBTI Type
INTJ
Yes, and as someone in love you are looking to justify that trust. You are willing to trust, often times without getting a full picture of the other person. I guess what I'm saying is that love can play tricks on either person, making them tolerate something they wouldn't in someone they didn't love.


I agree. I did a favor for my best friend and he has royally screwed me with it. Through the whole ordeal I've said and done some severe things, but because of our relationship (yeah I'll say it- I love him!) I've put up with more than I thought. Sometimes I feel like I'm a traitor on my own values because he's defying them.

Now let's say we just became acquainted a few years ago and he did what he did- I'd have mopped the floor with him.
 

IZthe411

Carerra Lu
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
2,585
MBTI Type
INTJ
what are istj's like when angry?

ive read the angry intj thread

maybe this is how ill figure out my ex's type :)


Relationship angry? Not pretty. As introverts, we are likely to have something held in, some frustration, something that has disappointed us but we haven't shared it. It will come out, and the words used won't be pretty. Fi at it's worse.

Other Angry? We can be verbally assaulting. Argumentive. Very narrow minded.

I don't want to confuse anger with stress. Stress is when Ne goes bonkers, everything can and will go wrong, so we can become overly overly restrictive and structured. Personally this is one of the things that helped me confirm myself as ISTJ. I can handle a stressful situation, but I tighten the reins on any unfamiliar person or situation. If it's something that I have been through before, I'm not as bad, but again I'll probably be more directive than I usually am.
 

esfpmary

New member
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
40
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
9w1
Introverted feeling:

As a Tertiary Function, Fi typically leads ITJs to retreat into solitary actions that have no constructive worldly effect but are aimed at providing a justification for calling themselves good people. Another example is obsession with the purity of one's soul. For example, being a vegetarian while working at Taco Bell--not out of any great love for animals (the person might hardly know anything about what cows are like), but to be able to say, "Well, at least I never ate any animals." Or engaging in pointless acts of honor, like maintaining super-self-control or "doing one's duty" or going down with the ship. Nothing is gained by going down with the ship; it's a hyper-introverted act aimed at providing a rationalization for one's goodness without regard to real-world consequences. Nearly all of these tertiary-Fi acts involve refraining from action viewed as unethical rather than taking positive action that would accomplish something. They're a retreat from the world--or rather, a rationalization for disregarding worldly matters.

Tertiary and inferior Fi also sometimes lead TJs to view large numbers of people as "troglodytes": soulless or stupid creatures whose rotten situations in life derive only from their own intrinsic rottenness-of-soul. To take a comic example, Lex Luthor's lamentation in Superman, "Why is the world's greatest criminal genius surrounded by nincompoops?"

Perhaps the most typical manifestation of tertiary and inferior Fi is an attitude of psychologizing other people: a sort of pseudo-empathy in which one explains other people's behavior in terms of pitiful needs and psychological flaws that anyone would be ashamed to have. "Notice the defensiveness. He clings desperately to his ideas. Such weakness." (Nearly all psychological theories offer plenty of ammo for psychologizing, including Lenore Thomson's ideas.) Where developed Fi leads you to find something in your own soul in terms of which to truly understand someone else and see things their way, tertiary and inferior Fi typically lead you to find something in your own soul that you despise, in terms of which you can "explain" them and justify putting them down.

Leonore Thomson:
Introverted Feeling
 

IZthe411

Carerra Lu
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
2,585
MBTI Type
INTJ
Introverted feeling:

As a Tertiary Function, Fi typically leads ITJs to retreat into solitary actions that have no constructive worldly effect but are aimed at providing a justification for calling themselves good people. Another example is obsession with the purity of one's soul. For example, being a vegetarian while working at Taco Bell--not out of any great love for animals (the person might hardly know anything about what cows are like), but to be able to say, "Well, at least I never ate any animals." Or engaging in pointless acts of honor, like maintaining super-self-control or "doing one's duty" or going down with the ship. Nothing is gained by going down with the ship; it's a hyper-introverted act aimed at providing a rationalization for one's goodness without regard to real-world consequences. Nearly all of these tertiary-Fi acts involve refraining from action viewed as unethical rather than taking positive action that would accomplish something. They're a retreat from the world--or rather, a rationalization for disregarding worldly matters.

Tertiary and inferior Fi also sometimes lead TJs to view large numbers of people as "troglodytes": soulless or stupid creatures whose rotten situations in life derive only from their own intrinsic rottenness-of-soul. To take a comic example, Lex Luthor's lamentation in Superman, "Why is the world's greatest criminal genius surrounded by nincompoops?"

Perhaps the most typical manifestation of tertiary and inferior Fi is an attitude of psychologizing other people: a sort of pseudo-empathy in which one explains other people's behavior in terms of pitiful needs and psychological flaws that anyone would be ashamed to have. "Notice the defensiveness. He clings desperately to his ideas. Such weakness." (Nearly all psychological theories offer plenty of ammo for psychologizing, including Lenore Thomson's ideas.) Where developed Fi leads you to find something in your own soul in terms of which to truly understand someone else and see things their way, tertiary and inferior Fi typically lead you to find something in your own soul that you despise, in terms of which you can "explain" them and justify putting them down.

Leonore Thomson:
Introverted Feeling


At work, but this is kind of interesting. I'll get back to you on this.
 

Thursday

Earth Exalted
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
3,960
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
If you believe in the dual system of socionics, or not, what is it that you value in ENFJs
 

gigi_xo

New member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
376
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w3
welll, my guess from the sound of this is that my darling exboyfriend was in fast an istj

but it IS possible to be a fairly intuitive version right?


if someone is TOO sensing they don't understand half of what I say & I get bored and annoyed if they don't like my endless abstract, metaphorical, and ultimately vague monologues
 

IZthe411

Carerra Lu
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
2,585
MBTI Type
INTJ
welll, my guess from the sound of this is that my darling exboyfriend was in fast an istj

but it IS possible to be a fairly intuitive version right?


if someone is TOO sensing they don't understand half of what I say & I get bored and annoyed if they don't like my endless abstract, metaphorical, and ultimately vague monologues

I guess if they are too sensing. I can only speak for myself, but the Ns I know, both Dom Ni's and Ne's don't speak in any nature that is foreign to me. I test moderately expressed sensor. We get along well. Maybe if you are too intuitive you'd turn off most sensors.
 

gigi_xo

New member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
376
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w3
I guess if they are too sensing. I can only speak for myself, but the Ns I know, both Dom Ni's and Ne's don't speak in any nature that is foreign to me. I test moderately expressed sensor. We get along well. Maybe if you are too intuitive you'd turn off most sensors.


I can turn off my intuitive-ness generally.

I scored almost entirely intuitive when I was tested at my university career center, they were generally shocked.

but about half of my friends, including one of my BEST friends are sensors. I just never feel deeply connected with most of them. only the best one. they have no idea i feel this way. They turn me off, but they appear to be quite fond of me regardless. they're very sweet. I love people, I just feel the need to relate everything to intuition too often and run to my N friends.

hence my surprise that my boyfriend of two years appears more istj than intj... but then again, he helped ground me, and remind me of like.... reality lol. I've gotten good at acting very esfp. and im guessing he was borderline intuitive.
 

IZthe411

Carerra Lu
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
2,585
MBTI Type
INTJ
I can turn off my intuitive-ness generally.

I scored almost entirely intuitive when I was tested at my university career center, they were generally shocked.

but about half of my friends, including one of my BEST friends are sensors. I just never feel deeply connected with most of them. only the best one. they have no idea i feel this way. They turn me off, but they appear to be quite fond of me regardless. they're very sweet. I love people, I just feel the need to relate everything to intuition too often and run to my N friends.

hence my surprise that my boyfriend of two years appears more istj than intj... but then again, he helped ground me, and remind me of like.... reality lol. I've gotten good at acting very esfp. and im guessing he was borderline intuitive.

I can imagine that situation. I have a lot of friends with differing depths. Gender might play a role as well, because as men we usually don't get too deep on a regular basis, but we're connected.
 

gigi_xo

New member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
376
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w3
I can imagine that situation. I have a lot of friends with differing depths. Gender might play a role as well, because as men we usually don't get too deep on a regular basis, but we're connected.

im fascinated.

How do you form this connection without a degree of intellectual or emotional depth?


I come off as ditsy as hell to everyoneeee around me. It takes people WEEKS to realize I do more than shopping, tour guiding, giggling,and singing loudly and off key. I'm a heavily expressed intuitive in a very sensate world :)
 

IZthe411

Carerra Lu
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
2,585
MBTI Type
INTJ
im fascinated.

How do you form this connection without a degree of intellectual or emotional depth?


I come off as ditsy as hell to everyoneeee around me. It takes people WEEKS to realize I do more than shopping, tour guiding, giggling,and singing loudly and off key. I'm a heavily expressed intuitive in a very sensate world :)

Common experiences and outlooks on things; not sure if they are emotional though. (they might well be, but I'm not an expert on that area ). For the majority of them we have common spiritual beliefs. More than sports and careers. :cheese: I have a lot of those, but that's not a basis for good friendships.

For those closest, the bonds are more substancial since we've now hit 30. For most of my circle, during the last 5 years we went seperate ways, but have came around full circle. Some, not all. Guys have gotten married, divorced, diagnosed with sicknesses, deaths of family, all of that. (There goes your emo connections)

As a group we are tight, but there might be one or two that you have the deeper relationship with. It's a cool situation to be in.
 

stellar renegade

PEST that STEPs on PETS
Joined
Jul 13, 2009
Messages
1,446
MBTI Type
ESTP
I guess you could say that's a major part of my goal in life, to seek an understanding of the systems that allow for order within our universe.

You sound a whole lot more like an NT than an SJ to me. NTs are all about understanding systems.

Anyway, I love this input. I've only read the first page so far and it's already incredibly intense. Oh, how I heart SJs! :wubbie:
 

Aleksei

Yeah, I can fly.
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
3,626
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Are ISTJs really as boring as they appear?
 

Sam Spade

New member
Joined
Jun 24, 2009
Messages
71
MBTI Type
ISTj
Are ENTPs really as superficial as they appear?

People need to stop using MBTI to make broad, sweeping generalizations about people.
 

Lady_X

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
18,235
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
784
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
welll, my guess from the sound of this is that my darling exboyfriend was in fast an istj

but it IS possible to be a fairly intuitive version right?


if someone is TOO sensing they don't understand half of what I say & I get bored and annoyed if they don't like my endless abstract, metaphorical, and ultimately vague monologues
gigi...are you a type 7 enneagram?

just asking because i read type 7 and type 1 compatibility and it was pretty accurate in my experience...i could pm it to ya.
 
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