[MBTI General] ISTJs Explained By ISTJs: Post your questions here!

[miss fortune]

and if you are an ENFP and you're not very close with an ISTJ, why are you posting in this thread?

because of the flexible nature of typology and its self reporting nature, it's absolutley rediculous to assume that things won't end happily for two people based on type alone- you have to know more to make the assessment, like values, hopes and dreams and such, and I know some amazingly open minded ISTJs and some ENFPs who's values and such alligned with them... there's a lot more than basic letters going into the whole thing, there's whole people, with their pasts and educations and such

and just because I CAN change my oil, it doesn't mean that I'm not happy to have someone who's quicker and more efficent at it do it for me

 

[Moiety]

and if you are an ENFP and you're not very close with an ISTJ, why are you posting in this thread?

because of the flexible nature of typology and its self reporting nature, it's absolutley rediculous to assume that things won't end happily for two people based on type alone- you have to know more to make the assessment, like values, hopes and dreams and such, and I know some amazingly open minded ISTJs and some ENFPs who's values and such alligned with them... there's a lot more than basic letters going into the whole thing, there's whole people, with their pasts and educations and such

That's kinda insulting really. Listen I know all kinds of ITJs. Some of my best friends are ITJs. It's not based on type alone in itself. It's based on the values associated with each type. How many ISTJs do you know that don't value responsibility and accountability? It's about patterns. I just expounded on it all because you disagreed with my PERSONAL opinion, and I tried explaining why I thought like I did.

And it's not about values and dreams but the path chosen to get there. This is MY opinion on relationships, and that's why I posted. And I'm posting in this thread because I'm interested in reading it. This is about ISTJs explaining themselves to non-ISTJs right? I don't need to be involved with one romantically.


And regarding the oil, yeah, we are different in that way.

 

[IZthe411]

That's kinda insulting really. Listen I know all kinds of ITJs. Some of my best friends are ITJs. It's not based on type alone in itself. It's based on the values associated with each type. How many ISTJs do you know that don't value responsibility and accountability? It's about patterns. I just expounded on it all because you disagreed with my PERSONAL opinion, and I tried explaining why I thought like I did.

And it's not about values and dreams but the path chosen to get there. This is MY opinion on relationships, and that's why I posted. And I'm posting in this thread because I'm interested in reading it. This is about ISTJs explaining themselves to non-ISTJs right? I don't need to be involved with one romantically.


And regarding the oil, yeah, we are different in that way.

Honorary, you can't come in here starting trouble now........that's in the contract!!

 

[miss fortune]

who the f%^& values irresponsibility and inaccountability?!

I'm going with patterns as well... that there's other traits NOT measured by the MBTI that have a large play in relationships as well... my parents have very different personalities than one another, for instance (INTP and ISFJ) but they share a lot of the same interests and values nonetheless, which is why they're very happy together and have been for 27 years- even though they might sit on the couch together in the evening with him reading Scientific American and her watching Ghost Whisperer!

difference in personality type can't explain things like shared religion, shared cultural background, hobbies or interests and it doesn't control what goals and paths you choose to take in life

 

[Moiety]

who the f%^& values irresponsibility and inaccountability?!

Lol, you don't know ENFPs very well do you?

I'm going with patterns as well... that there's other traits NOT measured by the MBTI that have a large play in relationships as well... my parents have very different personalities than one another, for instance (INTP and ISFJ) but they share a lot of the same interests and values nonetheless, which is why they're very happy together and have been for 27 years- even though they might sit on the couch together in the evening with him reading Scientific American and her watching Ghost Whisperer!

difference in personality type can't explain things like shared religion, shared cultural background, hobbies or interests and it doesn't control what goals and paths you choose to take in life

Values to me are more important than any of those personally, and I would assume (I shouldn't assume I know) for any Fi dom or aux user.

Of course all traits play into it. Just some values are more important than others. And I'm not saying ISTJs and ENFPs don't work because they are opposites. I know a lot of INTP and ESFJ couples that work very well. But it also depends on who is the male and who is the female. And it also depends of how important certain things are to each type. From my experience ISTJ and ENFP value very different things.

And if anyone cares to prove me wrong I'll be here.

 

[miss fortune]

I know quite a few ENFPs and they at least have some desire to end up not living on the streets!

and like I said- other traits are just as or more important in the long run- not ALL ENFPs are crazily stubborn and ignore the rest of the world... and not all ISTJs are calculating machines with feet

 

[IZthe411]

From my experience ISTJ and ENFP value very different things.

They could value the same things. They just have different ways of expressing those values, or ideas of how they should be expressed.

 

[miss fortune]

They could value the same things. They just have different ways of expressing those values, or ideas of how they should be expressed.

 

[Moiety]

I know quite a few ENFPs and they at least have some desire to end up not living on the streets!

Which has nothing to do with what I said. I meant accountability vs forgiveness and responsibility vs freedom. It is highly subjective and depends on the subject matter.

and like I said- other traits are just as or more important in the long run- not ALL ENFPs are crazily stubborn and ignore the rest of the world... and not all ISTJs are calculating machines with feet

ENFPs are stubborn and ignore the rest of the world? I thought that was ISTJs lool

They could value the same things. They just have different ways of expressing those values, or ideas of how they should be expressed.

Give me an example. And maybe the way of expressing the values is everything sometimes, specially for ENFPs who are NOT "the ends justify the means".

 

[Betty Blue]

They could value the same things. They just have different ways of expressing those values, or ideas of how they should be expressed.

Give me an example. And maybe the way of expressing the values is everything sometimes, specially for ENFPs who are NOT the ends justify the means.

Oh, thats just too easy!
Example
ISTJ (my partner) thinks loyalty from someone else to him is important because it means that the loyal person will do many things for him and he can rely on them when he needs them. he will probably test their loyalty to be sure. he believes that this person may now deserve his loyalty in return.

ENFP (me) Loyalty is important to me because i know i must have had a profound effect on someone to deserve their loyalty, i must have shown that i am loyal for them to be loyal to me. I believe there must be a mutual feeling of trust. I see a deeper meaning to it, based mainly on emotion.

We both value loyalty but for different reasons and meanings. He see's it in black and white, i see it in a deeper meaning. He reasons it, i intuitivly trust it.

 

[IZthe411]

Give me an example. And maybe the way of expressing the values is everything sometimes, specially for ENFPs who are NOT "the ends justify the means".

Simple:

Trust: ISTJ- I can tell you some things about me, but not all.
ENFP- I can be open with you about everything

Hardworking: ISTJ- Work first, play later
ENFP- The work will get done with fun mixed in here and there

Your last statement- That's exactly my point. To a TJ, the ends will justify the means.

 

[IZthe411]

Oh, thats just too easy!
Example
ISTJ (my partner) thinks loyalty from someone else to him is important because it means that the loyal person will do many things for him and he can rely on them when he needs them. he will probably test their loyalty to be sure. he believes that this person may now deserve his loyalty in return.

ENFP (me) Loyalty is important to me because i know i must have had a profound effect on someone to deserve their loyalty, i must have shown that i am loyal for them to be loyal to me. I believe there must be a mutual feeling of trust. I see a deeper meaning to it, based mainly on emotion.

We both value loyalty but for different reasons and meanings. He see's it in black and white, i see it in a deeper meaning. He reasons it, i intuitivly trust it.

Nice example

 

[Moiety]

Example
ISTJ (my partner) thinks loyalty from someone else to him is important because it means that the loyal person will do many things for him and he can rely on them when he needs them. he will probably test their loyalty to be sure. he believes that this person may now deserve his loyalty in return.

ENFP (me) Loyalty is important to me because i know i must have had a profound effect on someone to deserve their loyalty, i must have shown that i am loyal for them to be loyal to me. I believe there must be a mutual feeling of trust. I see a deeper meaning to it, based mainly on emotion.

We both value loyalty but for different reasons and meanings. He see's it in black and white, i see it in a deeper meaning. He reasons it, i intuitivly trust it.

Lol exactly! See you just value the same thing because it's called the same thing, but in completely different ways. I don't test people's loyalty and I frown upon it. Loyalty to me is not doing many things for me. In fact, I don't want anything done to me. I just want that mutual profoundness.

Simple:

Trust: ISTJ- I can tell you some things about me, but not all.
ENFP- I can be open with you about everything

Hardworking: ISTJ- Work first, play later
ENFP- The work will get done with fun mixed in here and there

Your last statement- That's exactly my point. To a TJ, the ends will justify the means.

Again...exactly. If you are with me and I'm open with you about everything I expect the same thing in return, otherwise it is unequal. Besides, if you don't share things about yourself with your partner who are you gonna share it with...

And about work, again, that's an example of why it's not compatible most of the time. Where's the compromise? The ENFP might work that way, but when he/she feels like it and it's counter-productive to try to do it any other way.

And yes, to a TJ the end justify the means, but to an FP they dont.

 

[IZthe411]

Lol exactly! See you just value the same thing because it's called the same thing, but in completely different ways. I don't test people's loyalty and I frown upon it. Loyalty to me is not doing many things for me. In fact, I don't want anything done to me. I just want that mutual profoundness.



Again...exactly. If you are with me and I'm open with you about everything I expect the same thing in return, otherwise it is unequal. Besides, if you don't share things about yourself with your partner who are you gonna share it with...

And about work, again, that's an example of why it's not compatible most of the time. Where's the compromise? The ENFP might work that way, but when he/she feels like it and it's counter-productive to try to do it any other way.

And yes, to a TJ the end justify the means, but to an FP they dont.

Loyalty, Trust, and Hard Working, are all subjective terms- so you'd expect some kind of difference in them. They are still the same values.

Actually I came back to edit my statement about TJs....it's more so the judgement characteristic, so its not just my Te, but your Fi- Your feelings may very well dictate the end to justify the means.

Example:

To an ITJ love is more so expressed in actions. Your Fi may require that you have it expressed verbally. If your SO can't say it, then by your standards they don't mean it.

 

[raz]

I get off on justifying the means with the end.

 

[Moiety]

Loyalty, Trust, and Hard Working, are all subjective terms- so you'd expect some kind of difference in them. They are still the same values.

Actually I came back to edit my statement about TJs....it's more so the judgement characteristic, so its not just my Te, but your Fi- Your feelings may very well dictate the end to justify the means.

Example:

To an ITJ love is more so expressed in actions. Your Fi may require that you have it expressed verbally. If your SO can't say it, then by your standards they don't mean it.

No, they do mean it. But if I'm wired to value having it said to me frequently does it really matter? And ENFP love is also expressed in actions. Just more abstractly like sticking up for one's values rather than more concrete S stuff.


My feelings never really dictate the end justifies the means. Fi and Te are both judging yes, but they do it differently. That's the very basis of typology.


And what it means to have trust is what matters. Not the word trust. What being loyal entails is what really matters, not the word.

 

[Betty Blue]

Lol exactly! See you just value the same thing because it's called the same thing, but in completely different ways. I don't test people's loyalty and I frown upon it. Loyalty to me is not doing many things for me. In fact, I don't want anything done to me. I just want that mutual profoundness.

?
I'm a bit confused (bolded-for me then to me).
Do you frown upon testing peoples loyalty? or just loyalty in general?
I'd say the specifics are down to individual character.
Is mutual profoundness loyalty?
I'm not trying to argue or antagonize you i am genuinely not understanding you.

Again...exactly. If you are with me and I'm open with you about everything I expect the same thing in return, otherwise it is unequal. Besides, if you don't share things about yourself with your partner who are you gonna share it with...

Ah yeah, heres the thing. You expect it in return i wouldn't expect, like maybe, even hope, but not expect.

And about work, again, that's an example of why it's not compatible most of the time. Where's the compromise? The ENFP might work that way, but when he/she feels like it and it's counter-productive to try to do it any other way.

And yes, to a TJ the end justify the means, but to an FP they dont.

The compromise is that the enfp inspires the istj-ta daa!

 

[Moiety]

?
I'm a bit confused (bolded-for me then to me).
Do you frown upon testing peoples loyalty? or just loyalty in general?
I'd say the specifics are down to individual character.
Is mutual profoundness loyalty?
I'm not trying to argue or antagonize you i am genuinely not understanding you.

I frown upon testing people's loyalty depending on how it is done. Well the specifcs are down to individual, I'm just saying I wouldn't want to be tested.

Mutual profoundness can be a part of loyalty yes. It's easy to be loyal out of mutual profoundness. I would never be loyal out of duty for example.

Ah yeah, heres the thing. You expect it in return i wouldn't expect, like maybe, even hope, but not expect.

I was giving an hypothetical example. And wasn't talking about me. Also, by expect I mean "want from a relationship". It's like the old example of the guy who buys flowers to the girl who doesn't care for presents. It's can be a genuine way of showing feelings I guess...but it's better when two people like receiving the same kinds of things.

The compromise is that the enfp inspires the istj-ta daa!

Inspires the ISTJ to what? To work? But what if the ENFP doesn't want to work. I'm not saying both can't offer things the other doesn't have...that's the whole basis of the attraction for most in the first place I'm guessing...I'm saying, what does each individual have to give up in the process?

 

[Betty Blue]

what does each individual have to give up in the process?

I don't know. Personally i'm trying to make compromises, so i'm guessing that giving up should be exchanged for compromise. I can cope with compromise.

 

[Moiety]

I don't know. Personally i'm trying to make compromises, so i'm guessing that giving up should be exchanged for compromise. I can cope with compromise.

Yes compromise is a needed part of a relationship. Too much compromise spells something else though. But whatever, I've already explained my view relatively in-depth I think.

If two people are more than happy together no one is to judge. I just think should think very clearly about what makes them happy in a relationship and constantly make assessments. Denying my essence and the way I go about my life is not something I'm personally willing to do. Being with someone that goes about things in a antagonically different way than mine would personally not give me happiness and enable me to be my carefree, freedom-loving, rule-unabiding self. No parenting for me. Not to mention I like talking...a lot...and talking with Ss (nevermind ISTJs ) can get boring after a while when you are N.