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  1. #571
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    What would make an ISTJ follow a "vision", or rather a plan that cannot be immediately backed up by experience?
    Back it up with figures and plans. Show me what you hope to accomplish. Show me the math behind it. Visions can be followed, but for me to take them seriously, it needs to be understood on a practical level. What is the practical reason this vision exists? Are you dedicated to it? If experience isn't an option, then preliminary estimates are. You can't always dismiss something because it's not completely concrete. This is where I invoke Ne and rely on what-if scenarios in order to back my "show me the math behind it" demand.


  2. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    Back it up with figures and plans. Show me what you hope to accomplish. Show me the math behind it. Visions can be followed, but for me to take them seriously, it needs to be understood on a practical level. What is the practical reason this vision exists? Are you dedicated to it? If experience isn't an option, then preliminary estimates are. You can't always dismiss something because it's not completely concrete. This is where I invoke Ne and rely on what-if scenarios in order to back my "show me the math behind it" demand.
    What if we needed your abilities on board but it wasn't really important for you to understand the plan? Would a steady, healthy paycheck be enough to get your best efforts?

  3. #573
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tawanda View Post
    Question - Is it not unusual for an unhealthy ISTJ to be overly sensitive, as to the point where you mistake them for an unhealthy INFP? My father tested as one, and I just don't see it. I see it in my brother, and they're alike in a lot of ways, but dad seems way more immature. He gets sensitive about nothing, doesn't get anything done, is hypocritical, assumes people have been doing stuff against him and that everyone's out to get him, etc.

    He's had a troubled life, and I'm quite aware that he is mentally unstable to the point of no return, and that it's very difficult and not recommended to type unstable people...but I'm just curious.

    Yeah he could be caught in a Si-Fi loop, overreacting to anything that happens to him. Sounds like the guy needs help.

  4. #574
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    What would make an ISTJ follow a "vision", or rather a plan that cannot be immediately backed up by experience?
    You gotta sell them on the idea. Show them the benefits. If they believe in you, if you have proven yourself to be someone that they can trust, they'll be more comfortable helping you achieve that vision.

  5. #575
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    What if we needed your abilities on board but it wasn't really important for you to understand the plan? Would a steady, healthy paycheck be enough to get your best efforts?
    Ummm.....

    Maybe

    The way you just stated it- "it wasn't really important for me to understand" would bother me personally, especially if you worded it that way. Even if you didn't eventually I'd ask you what's up. I want to be involved, know what the big picture is, the ultimate outcome, so I can see where my work fits in. I, for one, am not comfortable being told to do something and have no idea of how it fits in the grand scheme. Although I am an ISTJ I still have the ability to make decisions and draw conclusions should I need to on the fly. I hate having to wait to talk to somebody about what to do next if it's as simple as filling me in on what they know.

  6. #576
    L'anima non dimora Donna Cecilia's Avatar
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    As for me, when I have no past experience to back up a plan, I rely on my insight and figure it out myself. To know how can I help you.

    If I like what I see, how it fits in the actual situation, and what will happen if the plan is executed, I´ll help you.

    Also, a big paycheck is not a bad idea.

    "An intelligent hell would be better than a stupid paradise."
    Victor Hugo



    LII/INTj (Analyst) - 1w9 Sp/Sx - RC|O|EI - Melancholy/Choleric

  7. #577
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Do I get the big paycheck whether or not the plan fails?


  8. #578
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    How do you handle Authority? Do you have that "Since he's the boss, I'll do" mentality, or is it qualified?

    I have a younger ESTJ workmate who is very conscious of authority. Me- I have to respect the person for me to want to do things for them that I don't agree with or I think are unnecessary.

  9. #579
    L'anima non dimora Donna Cecilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    How do you handle Authority? Do you have that "Since he's the boss, I'll do" mentality, or is it qualified?

    I have a younger ESTJ workmate who is very conscious of authority. Me- I have to respect the person for me to want to do things for them that I don't agree with or I think are unnecessary.
    If he´s not qualified, he´ll be demoted sooner or later. And I can use that chance to take charge.

    At first, I try to be my boss´ own boss, and prevent my institution or division from making a fool of itself. But, when it was not a "kill or be killed" situation, I didn´t interfere and, some higher-ups looked like complete idiots by proving their own incompetence. And was put in charge of some interesting things.

    "An intelligent hell would be better than a stupid paradise."
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    LII/INTj (Analyst) - 1w9 Sp/Sx - RC|O|EI - Melancholy/Choleric

  10. #580
    ¡MI TORTA! Amethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    Yeah he could be caught in a Si-Fi loop, overreacting to anything that happens to him. Sounds like the guy needs help.
    Yeah, we've tried...he's too stubborn.

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