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  1. #561
    L'anima non dimora Donna Cecilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    Here's a question for you all. What do you think are some of the practical differences between Si and Ni? I've always had the idea that they are more similar to each other than either is to Se or Ne. I'd like to know what you all think about that, or if it's just me who sees the similarity.
    Si relies on what is known (present facts, or information stored in memory from personal experience), to draw conclusions by contrasting past and present, easily spotting contradictions; while Ni relies on insight (possibilities, meanings, personal impressions), to change a future scenario starting from something completely new, since it can notice abstract patterns.

    By the way, did somebody take you for an ISTJ (as I was taken for an INTJ before)? Just wondering.

    The functions can be perceived as similar since they, at least for me, compliment each other. I use intuitive reasoning to overcome my Si´s major problem: missing, if nonexistent, information. I always start from what I know and what I see (the facts), and then start putting them in perspective (juggling with different possibilities and unseen patterns) to figure out how a situation will develop, or in which context it is situated, in order to get a solution, or a plan, which can be helpful also in the long-term.

    There must also be intuitives who can follow this same process the other way round.

    "An intelligent hell would be better than a stupid paradise."
    Victor Hugo



    LII/INTj (Analyst) - 1w9 Sp/Sx - RC|O|EI - Melancholy/Choleric

  2. #562
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    Here's a question for you all. What do you think are some of the practical differences between Si and Ni? I've always had the idea that they are more similar to each other than either is to Se or Ne. I'd like to know what you all think about that, or if it's just me who sees the similarity.

    Interesting question...

    To be honest with you, Ni's probably the most foreign of the 8 to me....probably because it's the most inferior function for my type. But I'd think that there'd have to be some similarities, as they are both introverted perception functions. For me, it's easier to identify the key difference, that being Si is basing it off past concrete information while Ni's piecing it together in a more abstract fashion.

    I think ISTJs and INTJs are more alike than they are different, as they are both Pi/Te/Fi/Pe.

  3. #563
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donna Cecilia View Post
    Si relies on what is known (present facts, or information stored in memory from personal experience), to draw conclusions by contrasting past and present, easily spotting contradictions; while Ni relies on insight (possibilities, meanings, personal impressions), to change a future scenario starting from something completely new, since it can notice abstract patterns.

    By the way, did somebody take you for an ISTJ (as I was taken for an INTJ before)? Just wondering.

    The functions can be perceived as similar since they, at least for me, compliment each other. I use intuitive reasoning to overcome my Si´s major problem: missing, if nonexistent, information. I always start from what I know and what I see (the facts), and then start putting them in perspective (juggling with different possibilities and unseen patterns) to figure out how a situation will develop, or in which context it is situated, in order to get a solution, or a plan, which can be helpful also in the long-term.

    There must also be intuitives who can follow this same process the other way round.
    Oh yes. Others thought I was an ISTJ, and I thought so myself too. I'm generally somebody who follows procedure in a given situation, and am very literal and linear. The thing is, I think these are really qualities that apply to the left-brain as a whole, and not just Si. All J-types are left-brained, and all P-types are right-brained. The way I know I'm an INTJ and not an ISTJ, is how I gather information. Having known some ISTJs, and my father being one, I have made some observations of your general behavior. ISTJs, using Ne as their main data-gathering function, draw connections between things in their immediate surrounding that I do not. Se basically sees the world as it is, and doesn't do any sort of processing. Si/Ne users gather and process, then store, while Ni/Se users gather, then store and process. Ni seems to be like Si in that it is a collection of known information. The difference is that Ni is able to shift facts and data around to change between "what is" and "what could be." Ne and Se seem to me to be the "true" perceiving functions. Ni and Si are more like memory banks, just with one being a little more complex than the other. So basically, I already had this idea, and I was asking for the opinion of SJs to get a different perspective and see if maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way.
    You lose.

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  4. #564
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    I think ISTJs and INTJs are more alike than they are different, as they are both Pi/Te/Fi/Pe.
    I agree. I generally understand ISTJs much better than I understand INTPs, for instance. I think it's the Ti/Te divide that makes them tough to understand.
    You lose.

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  5. #565
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    Oh yes. Others thought I was an ISTJ, and I thought so myself too. I'm generally somebody who follows procedure in a given situation, and am very literal and linear. The thing is, I think these are really qualities that apply to the left-brain as a whole, and not just Si. All J-types are left-brained, and all P-types are right-brained. The way I know I'm an INTJ and not an ISTJ, is how I gather information. Having known some ISTJs, and my father being one, I have made some observations of your general behavior. ISTJs, using Ne as their main data-gathering function, draw connections between things in their immediate surrounding that I do not. Se basically sees the world as it is, and doesn't do any sort of processing. Si/Ne users gather and process, then store, while Ni/Se users gather, then store and process. Ni seems to be like Si in that it is a collection of known information. The difference is that Ni is able to shift facts and data around to change between "what is" and "what could be." Ne and Se seem to me to be the "true" perceiving functions. Ni and Si are more like memory banks, just with one being a little more complex than the other. So basically, I already had this idea, and I was asking for the opinion of SJs to get a different perspective and see if maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way.
    I don't think of Si as a memory bank. That's your own memory. All of the functions are processes. They aren't databases or systems. The difference between Si and Ni is how you process information internally. Si relates past information to the present. Ni takes information and creates new concepts.

    My father is an INTJ. I'm ISTJ. We relate well due to having 3 letters in common. We're also fascinated with computers, and me exposing myself to technical ideas within the computer world has vastly changed my viewpoint on Ni and Ne. My father is focused on creating abstractions and working with the systems of reality. His Ni in conjuction with working with systems from Te makes him not concerned with respecting what was or is like Si does. If a system is flawed, he has no issue changing it, because effectiveness is of utmost priority.

    Si is a function that places emphasis on reality, respecting long-held organized thought and comparing what has occurred in the past with what is occurring in the present. That's why Si is a stabilizing function. It compares the past with the present. This type of process is informative but useless without extraverted judgment to carry out adjustments from comparisons. The difference in me vs my father is that I'm the one that will measure the practicality of the external situation, how it fits with reality.


  6. #566
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Question- how critical are you guys of other people- especially of their faults?

    Does that critical attitude ever come back to haunt you when you've failed- even on the smallest things?

  7. #567
    L'anima non dimora Donna Cecilia's Avatar
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    Question- how critical are you guys of other people- especially of their faults?

    I´m a strong critic of people, especially of their morals. I tend to focus my criticism on my loved ones, but in a constructive manner (I have learnt this over the years, though). Like saying "I criticize you, I love you".

    Does that critical attitude ever come back to haunt you when you've failed- even on the smallest things?

    Yes, but not by other people. I am my own critic. And the hardest one, to be honest.

    "An intelligent hell would be better than a stupid paradise."
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  8. #568
    Klingon Warrior Princess Patches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donna Cecilia View Post
    Question- how critical are you guys of other people- especially of their faults?

    I´m a strong critic of people, especially of their morals. I tend to focus my criticism on my loved ones, but in a constructive manner (I have learnt this over the years, though). Like saying "I criticize you, I love you".

    Does that critical attitude ever come back to haunt you when you've failed- even on the smallest things?

    Yes, but not by other people. I am my own critic. And the hardest one, to be honest.
    Seconded on these answers. Though I'd say because of the way I was raised I am less critical of morals and more critical of academic/career achievements. If someone has academic-related faults I tend to be VERY critical. And I haven't really mastered the art of being super constructive about it. I'm just blunt about how they're failing. This is an area I should improve. And like Donna, I am more critical of people I am closer to.

    Also like Donna, I am more critical of myself than anyone else.
    “Everybody has a secret world inside of them. All of the people of the world, I mean everybody. No matter how dull and boring they are on the outside, inside
    them they've all got unimaginable, magnificent, wonderful, stupid, amazing worlds. Not just one world. Hundreds of them. Thousands maybe.” -Neil Gaiman

    ~

  9. #569
    ¡MI TORTA! Amethyst's Avatar
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    Question - Is it not unusual for an unhealthy ISTJ to be overly sensitive, as to the point where you mistake them for an unhealthy INFP? My father tested as one, and I just don't see it. I see it in my brother, and they're alike in a lot of ways, but dad seems way more immature. He gets sensitive about nothing, doesn't get anything done, is hypocritical, assumes people have been doing stuff against him and that everyone's out to get him, etc.

    He's had a troubled life, and I'm quite aware that he is mentally unstable to the point of no return, and that it's very difficult and not recommended to type unstable people...but I'm just curious.

  10. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    Good question. Thanks

    ISTJs follow norms, not based on society or traditions, but what they themselves have accepted as 'normal'. I think we have this reputation due to the earliest observations of type showing ISTJs most tied to what was normal and acceptable at that time. But that's not the case.

    ISTJs don't just blindly follow any and everything. Most of the time, they are the last to join the crowd- if they join at all. Before accepting anything, they have to be won over, in a sense. You win them over by a combination of experience and facts, not just one or the other. Since that's the case, you cannot typify or expect us to all be alike- facts are constant, and in most cases, unchanging, but experiences of ISTJs differ like everyone else. So it's very easy to have a group of ISTJs and all of them differ in their 'norms'.
    What would make an ISTJ follow a "vision", or rather a plan that cannot be immediately backed up by experience?

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