User Tag List

First 242505152535462 Last

Results 511 to 520 of 731

  1. #511
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    136

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    From the way you've presented your "counterarguments" in discussions with him, have his attitudes or opinions ever changed over time?
    Actually, yes, in many instances his attitudes have changed.

    But it's hard for me to say, "It's all right, I understand what you are saying. But I think differently. Can YOU understand that too?" when he's just stated that all people who believe such and such should be rounded up and shipped off, or that personality types who are chronically late don't have any redeeming points. He seems to be more open to changing his mind on issues that don't involve people, but when it involves people, his justice tendency overrides any mercy or understanding. he can be friendly with them, but when it comes up in conversation between us, his true feelings come out and I'm ashamed to even know him.

  2. #512
    L'anima non dimora Donna Cecilia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1w9
    Socionics
    LII
    Posts
    1,220

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coconut View Post
    Actually, yes, in many instances his attitudes have changed.

    But it's hard for me to say, "It's all right, I understand what you are saying. But I think differently. Can YOU understand that too?" when he's just stated that all people who believe such and such should be rounded up and shipped off, or that personality types who are chronically late don't have any redeeming points. He seems to be more open to changing his mind on issues that don't involve people, but when it involves people, his justice tendency overrides any mercy or understanding. he can be friendly with them, but when it comes up in conversation between us, his true feelings come out and I'm ashamed to even know him.
    It is not that we are doomed. We are more prone to change our minds as we live, motivated by facts, and not by people trying to do so. We see that behaviour as invasive.

    "An intelligent hell would be better than a stupid paradise."
    Victor Hugo



    LII/INTj (Analyst) - 1w9 Sp/Sx - RC|O|EI - Melancholy/Choleric

  3. #513
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    136

    Default

    He often says, "MBTI isn't an excuse; anybody can change," but what I'm hearing (based on conversations like I've described) is, "Anybody can change. Once people learn they're not ISTJ, they can work on those cognitive functions that will make them just like me -- a responsible person who pulls his weight."

    He's the only tested ISTJ type I know, and he seems to confirm all the negative ISTJ stereotypes (although he has his good points, of course). Lately I've just tried to stay away from subjects that will involve people because they just leave him feeling smug and self-righteous, and me furious at him. At this point, is avoiding discussion about people my best option?

  4. #514
    L'anima non dimora Donna Cecilia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1w9
    Socionics
    LII
    Posts
    1,220

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coconut View Post
    He often says, "MBTI isn't an excuse; anybody can change," but what I'm hearing (based on conversations like I've described) is, "Anybody can change. Once people learn they're not ISTJ, they can work on those cognitive functions that will make them just like me -- a responsible person who pulls his weight."

    He's the only tested ISTJ type I know, and he seems to confirm all the negative ISTJ stereotypes (although he has his good points, of course). Lately I've just tried to stay away from subjects that will involve people because they just leave him feeling smug and self-righteous, and me furious at him. At this point, is avoiding discussion about people my best option?
    Yes, it is. I have my own list of "topics to avoid" when dealing with different people.

    "An intelligent hell would be better than a stupid paradise."
    Victor Hugo



    LII/INTj (Analyst) - 1w9 Sp/Sx - RC|O|EI - Melancholy/Choleric

  5. #515
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    136

    Default

    Fair enough. Thank you, this thread has been very helpful!

  6. #516
    L'anima non dimora Donna Cecilia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1w9
    Socionics
    LII
    Posts
    1,220

    Default

    You are welcome.

    "An intelligent hell would be better than a stupid paradise."
    Victor Hugo



    LII/INTj (Analyst) - 1w9 Sp/Sx - RC|O|EI - Melancholy/Choleric

  7. #517
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ISTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/so
    Posts
    3,424

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Give me an example of someone coercing you please, to see if I understand what you guys are talking about.
    Good point. I wrote it that way because most people don't like feeling coerced, but different people (and perhaps types) may have different ideas as to what qualifies as "coercion" in the first place.

    When someone seems to lay down comments or questions in a way that hint toward an "expected" path, a path they "expect" me to take and are waiting with their bait in the water, I take offense to that. I don't like being "led" to the place you want me to be; I'll make my own choices. Something like that... Still not very specific, but that involves interpretation that varies from person to person.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  8. #518
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    2,591

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coconut View Post
    Perhaps. But, then again, I see this, about ISTJ/INTJ, posted by an ISTJ that seems to confirm the ISTJ stereotype:



    For me, wanting to find common ground with an ISTJ, this is not what I want to hear.
    That's not to say that this is ALL that ISTJs have going on. Some do, but all types have their dunces.

  9. #519
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    2,591

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    So you're trying to bring an ISTJ out of a closed-minded perspective. From the way you've presented your "counterarguments" in discussions with him, have his attitudes or opinions ever changed over time? Sounds like a good, basic approach to me.

    The way I would offer a counteropinion in discussions is to lay them out there, but not drive them home, or even to their logical conclusion. Let him put two and two together, and he won't feel coerced--nobody's going to appreciate that, and as an ISTJ, I'd resent someone trying to coerce me out of my mindset, even if closed-minded. But those suggestions, presented as "I wonder, though, if..." and just left at his feet, so to speak, can build up over time, and he may wonder about your points afterwards. Seems most likely to have success here.
    +1....this is truth right here. Listen to this man!!!

  10. #520
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    2,591

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coconut View Post
    Actually, yes, in many instances his attitudes have changed.

    But it's hard for me to say, "It's all right, I understand what you are saying. But I think differently. Can YOU understand that too?" when he's just stated that all people who believe such and such should be rounded up and shipped off, or that personality types who are chronically late don't have any redeeming points. He seems to be more open to changing his mind on issues that don't involve people, but when it involves people, his justice tendency overrides any mercy or understanding. he can be friendly with them, but when it comes up in conversation between us, his true feelings come out and I'm ashamed to even know him.
    He's either young and inexperienced, or just plain stupid....that we can't see.

Similar Threads

  1. Post your victories here!!
    By kyuuei in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: 10-02-2014, 11:06 PM
  2. ISTJ 6w7 sx/so here. Pleased to make your acquaintence.
    By The Iron Giant in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 74
    Last Post: 07-05-2012, 03:21 PM
  3. [ISTJ] How does one go about wooing an ISTJ? (and other questions)
    By Tea Party in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 119
    Last Post: 04-26-2009, 04:55 PM
  4. Hi, I'm a new INTJ here. Please post your welcomes : )
    By logan235711 in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 60
    Last Post: 05-21-2007, 10:51 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO