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  1. #301
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    No, they do mean it. But if I'm wired to value having it said to me frequently does it really matter? And ENFP love is also expressed in actions. Just more abstractly like sticking up for one's values rather than more concrete S stuff.


    My feelings never really dictate the end justifies the means. Fi and Te are both judging yes, but they do it differently. That's the very basis of typology.


    And what it means to have trust is what matters. Not the word trust. What being loyal entails is what really matters, not the word.

    I wasn't just talking about ISTJ/ENFP (although I used them in the example)- no matter your type, you have judgements based on your perception towards another's idea of values.

    I agree there's more to both trust and loyalty than the word. But again, if your trust and my trust are different (usually one person's perception of trust emcompasses more of themselves than the other) then you will assess (judge) that I'm not trusting enough, or you can't trust me because I'm not giving you adequate trust. It's very subjective, and you as an ENFP are looking for someone who will meet your definition of trust.

  2. #302
    Senior Member gigi_xo's Avatar
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    what are istj's like when angry?

    ive read the angry intj thread

    maybe this is how ill figure out my ex's type
    I live my life for the stars that shine & people say its just a waste of time- Oasis

    Extroverted (E) 65.63% Introverted (I) 34.38%
    Intuitive (N) 89.31% Sensing (S) 10.69%
    Feeling (F) 74.29% Thinking (T) 25.71%
    Perceiving (P) 74.19% Judging (J) 25.81%


    3w4

  3. #303
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Get me angry and Fi/Ne get turned off completely. I get locked into Si and fire off Te like crazy without second thoughts. Everything has to be EXACTLY right, almost EVERYTHING is wrong, everyone around me is incompetent and there's little tolerance for adjustment in plans. It basically fucks up the natural order that allows us to use Si/Te/Fi/Ne on a regular basis and throws them completely out of order.

    Oh, but when I'm angry, my focus is HEIGHTENED. Anger triggers extreme tunnel vision.


  4. #304
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    I agree there's more to both trust and loyalty than the word. But again, if your trust and my trust are different (usually one person's perception of trust emcompasses more of themselves than the other) then you will assess (judge) that I'm not trusting enough, or you can't trust me because I'm not giving you adequate trust. It's very subjective, and you as an ENFP are looking for someone who will meet your definition of trust.
    Yes, and as someone in love you are looking to justify that trust. You are willing to trust, often times without getting a full picture of the other person. I guess what I'm saying is that love can play tricks on either person, making them tolerate something they wouldn't in someone they didn't love.

  5. #305
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Yes, and as someone in love you are looking to justify that trust. You are willing to trust, often times without getting a full picture of the other person. I guess what I'm saying is that love can play tricks on either person, making them tolerate something they wouldn't in someone they didn't love.

    I agree. I did a favor for my best friend and he has royally screwed me with it. Through the whole ordeal I've said and done some severe things, but because of our relationship (yeah I'll say it- I love him!) I've put up with more than I thought. Sometimes I feel like I'm a traitor on my own values because he's defying them.

    Now let's say we just became acquainted a few years ago and he did what he did- I'd have mopped the floor with him.

  6. #306
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gigi_xo View Post
    what are istj's like when angry?

    ive read the angry intj thread

    maybe this is how ill figure out my ex's type

    Relationship angry? Not pretty. As introverts, we are likely to have something held in, some frustration, something that has disappointed us but we haven't shared it. It will come out, and the words used won't be pretty. Fi at it's worse.

    Other Angry? We can be verbally assaulting. Argumentive. Very narrow minded.

    I don't want to confuse anger with stress. Stress is when Ne goes bonkers, everything can and will go wrong, so we can become overly overly restrictive and structured. Personally this is one of the things that helped me confirm myself as ISTJ. I can handle a stressful situation, but I tighten the reins on any unfamiliar person or situation. If it's something that I have been through before, I'm not as bad, but again I'll probably be more directive than I usually am.

  7. #307
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    Introverted feeling:

    As a Tertiary Function, Fi typically leads ITJs to retreat into solitary actions that have no constructive worldly effect but are aimed at providing a justification for calling themselves good people. Another example is obsession with the purity of one's soul. For example, being a vegetarian while working at Taco Bell--not out of any great love for animals (the person might hardly know anything about what cows are like), but to be able to say, "Well, at least I never ate any animals." Or engaging in pointless acts of honor, like maintaining super-self-control or "doing one's duty" or going down with the ship. Nothing is gained by going down with the ship; it's a hyper-introverted act aimed at providing a rationalization for one's goodness without regard to real-world consequences. Nearly all of these tertiary-Fi acts involve refraining from action viewed as unethical rather than taking positive action that would accomplish something. They're a retreat from the world--or rather, a rationalization for disregarding worldly matters.

    Tertiary and inferior Fi also sometimes lead TJs to view large numbers of people as "troglodytes": soulless or stupid creatures whose rotten situations in life derive only from their own intrinsic rottenness-of-soul. To take a comic example, Lex Luthor's lamentation in Superman, "Why is the world's greatest criminal genius surrounded by nincompoops?"

    Perhaps the most typical manifestation of tertiary and inferior Fi is an attitude of psychologizing other people: a sort of pseudo-empathy in which one explains other people's behavior in terms of pitiful needs and psychological flaws that anyone would be ashamed to have. "Notice the defensiveness. He clings desperately to his ideas. Such weakness." (Nearly all psychological theories offer plenty of ammo for psychologizing, including Lenore Thomson's ideas.) Where developed Fi leads you to find something in your own soul in terms of which to truly understand someone else and see things their way, tertiary and inferior Fi typically lead you to find something in your own soul that you despise, in terms of which you can "explain" them and justify putting them down.

    Leonore Thomson:
    Introverted Feeling

  8. #308
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by esfpmary View Post
    Introverted feeling:

    As a Tertiary Function, Fi typically leads ITJs to retreat into solitary actions that have no constructive worldly effect but are aimed at providing a justification for calling themselves good people. Another example is obsession with the purity of one's soul. For example, being a vegetarian while working at Taco Bell--not out of any great love for animals (the person might hardly know anything about what cows are like), but to be able to say, "Well, at least I never ate any animals." Or engaging in pointless acts of honor, like maintaining super-self-control or "doing one's duty" or going down with the ship. Nothing is gained by going down with the ship; it's a hyper-introverted act aimed at providing a rationalization for one's goodness without regard to real-world consequences. Nearly all of these tertiary-Fi acts involve refraining from action viewed as unethical rather than taking positive action that would accomplish something. They're a retreat from the world--or rather, a rationalization for disregarding worldly matters.

    Tertiary and inferior Fi also sometimes lead TJs to view large numbers of people as "troglodytes": soulless or stupid creatures whose rotten situations in life derive only from their own intrinsic rottenness-of-soul. To take a comic example, Lex Luthor's lamentation in Superman, "Why is the world's greatest criminal genius surrounded by nincompoops?"

    Perhaps the most typical manifestation of tertiary and inferior Fi is an attitude of psychologizing other people: a sort of pseudo-empathy in which one explains other people's behavior in terms of pitiful needs and psychological flaws that anyone would be ashamed to have. "Notice the defensiveness. He clings desperately to his ideas. Such weakness." (Nearly all psychological theories offer plenty of ammo for psychologizing, including Lenore Thomson's ideas.) Where developed Fi leads you to find something in your own soul in terms of which to truly understand someone else and see things their way, tertiary and inferior Fi typically lead you to find something in your own soul that you despise, in terms of which you can "explain" them and justify putting them down.

    Leonore Thomson:
    Introverted Feeling

    At work, but this is kind of interesting. I'll get back to you on this.

  9. #309
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    If you believe in the dual system of socionics, or not, what is it that you value in ENFJs
    I N V I C T U S

  10. #310
    Senior Member gigi_xo's Avatar
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    welll, my guess from the sound of this is that my darling exboyfriend was in fast an istj

    but it IS possible to be a fairly intuitive version right?


    if someone is TOO sensing they don't understand half of what I say & I get bored and annoyed if they don't like my endless abstract, metaphorical, and ultimately vague monologues
    I live my life for the stars that shine & people say its just a waste of time- Oasis

    Extroverted (E) 65.63% Introverted (I) 34.38%
    Intuitive (N) 89.31% Sensing (S) 10.69%
    Feeling (F) 74.29% Thinking (T) 25.71%
    Perceiving (P) 74.19% Judging (J) 25.81%


    3w4

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