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  1. #31
    Senior Member sticker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Well, it's the N's who tend to acquire superiority complexes, so that'll be more apparent on a forum that's inundated with INxx's. That happens though because many/most INxx's had some issues growing up in terms of fitting in, feeling understood, and relating to their peers. Many INxx's felt like total oddballs/aliens growing up, so a forum consisting mostly of INxx's would tend to embrace/advertise the more N qualities and how awesome it is to be an N. ha.

    I can tell you about my ISTJ mom, though; she knows a little bit about mbti, because I've mentioned it offhand off and on, and she tests as a solid ISTJ. But she finds the concept of mbti kind of silly and doesn't understand why I'm interested in it, and I can almost guarantee that she'd find real-life INTJ's equally incomprehensible/strange and wouldn't want to 'be' them at all. She's quite happy with who she is, from what I gather.
    But... What about ISTJs who end up being the oddball and not fitting in to society?
    I feel like an outcast both online and offline.
    Everyone is unique. ...Just like everyone else.
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  2. #32
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sticker View Post
    But... What about ISTJs who end up being the oddball and not fitting in to society?
    I feel like an outcast both online and offline.
    There are many ways the functions of each type can manifest themselves. A young ISTJ will pick up many of the standards and principals they hold from their parents and immediate family. If these influential figures do not correspond to the social norm, then the ISTJ probably wont either. In fact, if theISTJ simply picks up on the wrong principals from them, the result can be the same.

    Of course everyone picks up things from their parents/family, but it is particularlly true of ISTJs as they are both introverts (and so are liable to mix with fewer people) and primary Si users (who can be strong willed and single minded, less liable to bend to external pressure).

    Personally, I like outcasts and oddballs. They have an improved chance of altering the world, and that appeals to me. Would you like to help me tear down the fabric of society? Think how much fun it would be!

  3. #33
    Member Sam Spade's Avatar
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    Would you like to help me tear down the fabric of society?
    Yes.
    "Knights had no meaning in this game. It wasn't a game for knights."

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    Personally, I like outcasts and oddballs. They have an improved chance of altering the world, and that appeals to me. Would you like to help me tear down the fabric of society? Think how much fun it would be!
    Sure! Just write a logical paper explaining why the new order is better and I'll be right behind you!

  5. #35
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    I'm not an outsider......I'm not a conformist. I'm in my lane.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    In reality, most ISTJs don't want to be INTJs because they value Si more highly than Ni.
    True...my ISTJ friend would never want to be an N.

    Drunk ISTJs seem to like Ni, though.

  7. #37
    Senior Member sticker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    There are many ways the functions of each type can manifest themselves. A young ISTJ will pick up many of the standards and principals they hold from their parents and immediate family. If these influential figures do not correspond to the social norm, then the ISTJ probably wont either. In fact, if theISTJ simply picks up on the wrong principals from them, the result can be the same.

    Of course everyone picks up things from their parents/family, but it is particularlly true of ISTJs as they are both introverts (and so are liable to mix with fewer people) and primary Si users (who can be strong willed and single minded, less liable to bend to external pressure).
    Well... The funny thing is, my values did not come from my parents, other than insecurity and fear. I grew up in a family full of stories of how people end up not getting a job anyway even though they are hardworking and such. Made me a definite 6w5 having a need to have security nets under security nets, especially since I don't think I'm competent enough in my areas of interests...

    Other than that, I think I'm one of the most rebellious ISTJ around. I quarrel with my SJ parents way more often than my ENFP sister. I'm usually the one who stands out the most in a group (at first because later on, they get used to me and feels like I'm not there at all because of how quiet I am sometimes) because I'm not feminine at all (despite parents trying to get me to wear skirts and dresses) and have interests that hardly anyone else has (rubiks cube etc)
    As for where I got my values from... I'm not sure... I just thought of them and found them more 'reasonable' than what my parents think? Many times, I feel like an INTJ (and relating to posts of what is happening to them in social context) simply because of how different I am. And also the lack of interest in social norms and rituals. lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    Personally, I like outcasts and oddballs. They have an improved chance of altering the world, and that appeals to me. Would you like to help me tear down the fabric of society? Think how much fun it would be!
    I wouldn't mind, as long as I can continue doing the things I like and have 3 meals a day.
    Everyone is unique. ...Just like everyone else.
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  8. #38
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sticker View Post
    Well... The funny thing is, my values did not come from my parents, other than insecurity and fear. I grew up in a family full of stories of how people end up not getting a job anyway even though they are hardworking and such. Made me a definite 6w5 having a need to have security nets under security nets, especially since I don't think I'm competent enough in my areas of interests...

    Other than that, I think I'm one of the most rebellious ISTJ around. I quarrel with my SJ parents way more often than my ENFP sister. I'm usually the one who stands out the most in a group (at first because later on, they get used to me and feels like I'm not there at all because of how quiet I am sometimes) because I'm not feminine at all (despite parents trying to get me to wear skirts and dresses) and have interests that hardly anyone else has (rubiks cube etc)
    As for where I got my values from... I'm not sure... I just thought of them and found them more 'reasonable' than what my parents think? Many times, I feel like an INTJ (and relating to posts of what is happening to them in social context) simply because of how different I am. And also the lack of interest in social norms and rituals. lol

    I wouldn't mind, as long as I can continue doing the things I like and have 3 meals a day.

    Yes, I can see how all that fits together. You know, if someone was to ask me to pin down the nature of Si, I'd say it was a preference for ideas and principals that are viewed as reliable. I think ISTJs have a tendancy to build up "information sets" composed of such things that have struck them as sound. While such ideas can come from other people, they don't actually have to.

    In an ISTJ both Te and Fi serve Si, by which I mean much of what they do is to help Si decide what principals are successful (Te thought) and reasonable (Fi thought). In your case, this process seems to have produced an information set different to both your parents and peers.

    As a side note, I am very pleased by the number of people willing to help me shatter civilisation. As we are still in the planning stages, what would people like to build in its place after we have swept the table clean? Assuming that you want to build something, rather than just loung around in rubble and enjoy the silence, of course.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Awwww, you STJ's are so adorable.

    I wouldn't want you lot to be N's, other than the fact that most INTJ's won't talk to me , you lot keep my feet on the ground when i am being a worrywart.

    I don't want you to change. Please. I personally think you are smashing people.

    Oh and Andy, i'll help out if it is for the greater good. Sounds like fun
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
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  10. #40
    Senior Member sticker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    Yes, I can see how all that fits together. You know, if someone was to ask me to pin down the nature of Si, I'd say it was a preference for ideas and principals that are viewed as reliable. I think ISTJs have a tendancy to build up "information sets" composed of such things that have struck them as sound. While such ideas can come from other people, they don't actually have to.

    In an ISTJ both Te and Fi serve Si, by which I mean much of what they do is to help Si decide what principals are successful (Te thought) and reasonable (Fi thought). In your case, this process seems to have produced an information set different to both your parents and peers.
    Yup, I guess that's pretty much it. It sucks though, because I end up being oblivious to so many things that are important for me to cope with people, society and getting my way around the outside world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    As a side note, I am very pleased by the number of people willing to help me shatter civilisation. As we are still in the planning stages, what would people like to build in its place after we have swept the table clean? Assuming that you want to build something, rather than just loung around in rubble and enjoy the silence, of course.
    Fill the world with kitties.

    Ah, another question since this thread is about ISTJ and INTJ, do any ISTJ here know of an ISTJ profile description which they can relate very well to? All my Sensing friends think I'm INTJ, most of my iNtuiting friends think I'm ISTJ after I asked them which profiles sounds more like me. Even though I know I use Si over Ni, I still end up relating more to INTJ profiles too. (Especially this funny one, except for parts dealing with self confidence. The Compleat Idiot's Guide to the INTJ | INTJ Central) It's as if my Si chose to pick up habits and weaknesses that INTJs have, years before I was even aware of personality types.
    Everyone is unique. ...Just like everyone else.
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