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  1. #11
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Spade View Post
    If he's anything like me, he's probably just participating in those activities to humor someone and feels absolutely out of place.
    I think this is a lot to do with it, since he is my boyfriend, but I have told him numerous times that if I sense that he's not having fun, I can't have fun. So, I'd rather him either enjoy himself, or not come with me, or him and I do something else together, but he insists on coming. Why? Sure, you could say to 'fulfill his duty' but he's making it worse. How doesn't he see that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    He might not enjoy the activity themselves, but there is a chance he enjoys the people. Don't pay attention to him.

    The only other scenario where the above may be true is if he was involuntary forced to attend or felt compelled to do so because of a particular person or to maintain group harmony. But that's just silliness.
    As said, I feel he does it because he doesn't want to not be there since that's what boyfriends do... but he is ruining the group harmony--for everyone, not just me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Habba View Post
    How do you know he's not having any fun? ENFPs and ISTJs show their feelings in very different way...

    Well, too crowded places set me on edge... I feel like drowning in places such as clubs. It's just too much noise and external stimulus going on. We (intros) are rather delicate thins in such matters.

    And perhaps the ISTJ is tagging along to show he's always with you... ISTJ do things often because they feel obligated to do so... And quite often with happy hearts.

    This is a question I ask myself too... why can't I just have fun like everyone else. I just feel so outsider amongst ordinary people at the clubs.
    You definitely are right in saying that ISTJs and ENFPs show feelings in a different way But I know him very, very well. And not only does he not show physically that he's not having fun, his face is just a constant look of disgust, annoyance, and frustration. It is so obvious, not to mention if someone asks "Hey, everything ok?" He won't even try and mask his lack of entertainment, he usually responds "As OK as I can be in a place like this". Why not just tryyyy?

    He did mention that this particular place we were at recently was too loud, too flashy, too crowded. His idea to make things better was him sit out in the lounge by himself while all the rest of us were inside having fun. How is this a win-win situation? Everyone is bummed that he is having a lousy time. Why not just leave?

    I am catching the theme of him wanting to do it because he feels the need to be there and show his obligation, but I think he'd much rather not be there, and sometimes, i feel the same if he is going to act like that. I dont enjoy clubs or dancing either, not at all actually, but I will just try and make the best of the situation if I have to be there.

    He does say what you mentioned about wondering why can't he just have fun? He says that he feels odd and like somethings wrong with him. I try not to make him feel that way, It makes me sad when I see ISTJs get sensitive like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbah View Post
    If you really want to know why he isn't having fun, you could try talking to him and getting to know him better. If it's not any deep issue, then I guess you two just don't hit it off. I don't know if it's a general ISTJ thing but personally, as long as I'm being decent enough, I don't see it as my responsibility to act in a way that isn't natural for me just to please people and be what they expect or want me to be. And I have noticed that yes, this can be irritating to certain people.
    I have tried talking to him before, and he doesn't get too deep. I've been dating him for several years, and this problem just comes up a lot. All he says is "How can anyone have fun in a place/situation like that? I don't even know what to do to have fun. Its too loud, I can't even talk to people. Everyone is slutty, everyone is drunk and bumping into me. How can a person actually enjoy this?" He starts to become judgemental, and as an ENFP, it is hard for me to handle that. I want to bring him into new places so he can learn to just enjoy himself, but alas, this just may never happen.

    The bolded part.... can you elaborate? If you know that you actions may be ruining the group's fun, you aren't willing to try and make things better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    I don't know why he's doing that. If I don't want to go, even with friends, then I'll just sit that one out (though if that's the only chance I'm going to get to hang out with my friends, I'm probably going to take it, yes). Maybe he wants to spend time with friends, and isn't excited by the specific plans but hopes it'll turn out to be more fun than he thinks. (When it doesn't, he ends up wishing he hadn't bothered coming along.)
    Agreed. I even tell him before hand "Hey, you probably aren't going to like this/you probably aren't going to have fun" and then he gets offended that I am warning him about it. I want to pull my hair out! I warn him so he has the opportunity to stand down if he doesn't want to come. I think you're right in saying that he may hope it will be better, but why hasn't he noticed that ultimately... he will never have fun in this situations. I am guilty too, because my driving Ne is like "What if this time it's different!!!!"


    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    This is true as well.

    I think my ex failed to fully understand me, and if she did she didn't have what it took to deal with it.

    I remember one time early on she was 'hurt' when I was happy that, due to weather, a trip to Six Flags in early November was canceled, due to weather. She thought it meant I didn't want to be with her; I just didn't want to be with a bunch of screaming people in the cold.

    Like I said, most times I end up enjoying myself immensely. But the thought of some upcoming social event doesn't sit well with me; it makes me nervous and anxious.
    I can see that being very frustrating, I can understand ISTJs pretty well, and even though I may have reacted the same as her, I have learned to not take things personal when it comes to ISTJs actions/decisions sometimes. I am trying to hard to understand him, but maybe I am just trying confusing that with trying to change him...?

    Quote Originally Posted by d@v3 View Post
    To me, this ISTJ doesn't sound like he is very mature....
    Interesting, when you say 'mature', do you mean not developed functions (according to type...) or do you mean the general idea of just being immature. Because, I do see him as being a very mature person, but as far as his 'type', he is very probably:

    60% Introverted
    90% Sensing
    90% Thinking
    100% Judging

    And I can see this being a problem, just as my extreme ENFP preferences can be a problem for me.

  2. #12
    Senior Member defragmybrain's Avatar
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    Yup my boyfriend does this. probably more biased as we are dating, but he certainly goes out of his way to do what i love just 'so i'm happy'. i sense this immediately and it bothers me sometimes that he isn't having as much fun as i am.
    sentiment is sweet, not so fun in the moment.
    - From your fun-loving ESFP.
    Se/Fi/Te/Ni, 44% E / 88% S / 62% F / 67% P

    http://badges.mypersonality.info/badge/0/18/182571.png

  3. #13
    Senior Member Gerbah's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Gerbah
    If you really want to know why he isn't having fun, you could try talking to him and getting to know him better. If it's not any deep issue, then I guess you two just don't hit it off. I don't know if it's a general ISTJ thing but personally, as long as I'm being decent enough, I don't see it as my responsibility to act in a way that isn't natural for me just to please people and be what they expect or want me to be. And I have noticed that yes, this can be irritating to certain people.


    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    The bolded part.... can you elaborate? If you know that you actions may be ruining the group's fun, you aren't willing to try and make things better?
    It depends on the context of course. I don't know about your boyfriend, I didn't know he wasn't just a regular friend. When I said that I meant more very generally speaking, that I don't try overly hard to always mirror back what people want, that I'm not a social chameleon. But of course when I'm in a group, I don't want to disrespect the group for no good reason. All things being normal, sure, I would want to make things better.

    I honestly can't think of some general ISTJ principle for why your boyfriend behaves like that, as you describe. If I don't enjoy something and my husband said to me, you don't have to come, I'd be very happy not to. I don't see any "duty" in doing the opposite.

    The only thing I can think of duty-related is: the fun stuff you're talking about is normally clubs and parties right? Maybe he's coming along because he wants to protect his woman and make sure random guys aren't paying you attention he wouldn't like?
    the shoheen ho of the wind of the west and the lulla lo of the soft sea billow - Alfred Graves

  4. #14
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    How old are the both of you? If he's responding that way about clubs and other things, is there some kind of way you can exclude him from them, and it not affect your relationship?

    What does he like to do? How balanced are your activities between these type of outings and more solitary things that he's more comfortable with?

  5. #15
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    Sure, you could say to 'fulfill his duty' but he's making it worse. How doesn't he see that? As said, I feel he does it because he doesn't want to not be there since that's what boyfriends do... but he is ruining the group harmony--for everyone, not just me.

    I am catching the theme of him wanting to do it because he feels the need to be there and show his obligation, but I think he'd much rather not be there, and sometimes, i feel the same if he is going to act like that.

    He does say what you mentioned about wondering why can't he just have fun? He says that he feels odd and like somethings wrong with him. I try not to make him feel that way, It makes me sad when I see ISTJs get sensitive like that.

    I have tried talking to him before, and he doesn't get too deep. I've been dating him for several years, and this problem just comes up a lot. All he says is "How can anyone have fun in a place/situation like that? I don't even know what to do to have fun. Its too loud, I can't even talk to people. Everyone is slutty, everyone is drunk and bumping into me. How can a person actually enjoy this?" He starts to become judgemental, and as an ENFP, it is hard for me to handle that. I want to bring him into new places so he can learn to just enjoy himself, but alas, this just may never happen.

    Agreed. I even tell him before hand "Hey, you probably aren't going to like this/you probably aren't going to have fun" and then he gets offended that I am warning him about it. I want to pull my hair out! I warn him so he has the opportunity to stand down if he doesn't want to come. I think you're right in saying that he may hope it will be better, but why hasn't he noticed that ultimately... he will never have fun in this situations. I am guilty too, because my driving Ne is like "What if this time it's different!!!!"
    Okay, reading the above, I think I know how he might be feeling about this whole issue.

    I admit that I am/have been quite much like him. I have been looking for "a way to loosen up and have fun with everyone else", but I usually end up failing because I can't really hang out with people I don't know or don't feel to be kin-spirited. And yet I keep trying because everybody else is having so much fun!

    So I'm trying to force myself to do something that doesn't come naturally to me, just to blend in and be like everyone else. It took me years to noticed that I don't have to be like everybody else, and it's perfectly okay to be odd one out. And actually to embrace that oddness, and max it!

    Now, going back to this "trying to fulfill his role"-thing. ISTJ can be extremely clingy, especially from an ENFPs point of view. You speak of group harmony, but I bet that your ISTJ has never even thought of that. And he might actually be jealous of you having all the fun with your friends, while you ask him to stay at home. If you are having fun, he should be there with you too! Or that's what he might be thinking of...

    Everyone is slutty, everyone is drunk and bumping into me. How can a person actually enjoy this?
    Here's a good spot for some self-reflection.

    What is it with him that bugs him off with these kinds of people? Most of the time some person or thing irritates us, it is because we project our own negative feelings into it. Maybe he hates those kinds of people because they are having fun, and he is not. So perhaps he's bitter about it.

    I want to bring him into new places so he can learn to just enjoy himself, but alas, this just may never happen.
    Maybe it's not the new places he needs, but old places. For me, it takes a very very long time to get comfortable with new people. I'd feel terrible having to meet dozens and dozens of people that I might never meet again. People as such do not interest me. What interests me with people is the experiences we have shared together. So maybe that's why it takes me so long time to get comfortable with other people.
    "The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine."
    -Nikola Tesla

  6. #16
    Senior Member burymecloser's Avatar
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    I'm not a Sensor, but hey, it's only one letter off, right? I've definitely been known to act like this (and I realize that's it not cool). A couple years ago, my SO and I went to a small party some friends were putting on. I don't mind small parties and I liked the friends, so going seemed like a good idea. But the theme of the party was really stupid, and I was sick the day of, so I was in a bad mood throughout. I didn't interact with anyone who didn't actively walk over and start a conversation with me, and probably dragged SO down with me. I wasn't exactly determined not to have a good time, but I wasn't really trying to enjoy myself, either.

    I've been way worse than that other times. The main issues as I see them:

    * Introversion really limits the situations I'm likely to enjoy myself in. I seldom like big parties. I hate clubbing. This was more of a problem when I was younger. Now I generally keep myself out of those situations in the first place.

    * When I'm not having fun, I have a really hard time masking it. It sounds like he does, too. He may even be trying to punish you in some twisted way.

    Quote Originally Posted by d@v3 View Post
    To me, this ISTJ doesn't sound like he is very mature....
    Agreed. I did this sort of thing with some frequency as a teenager. Now I realize that it's deeply inconsiderate -- it sounds like your ISTJ is deliberately bringing you down with him -- and that it's not in my own best interests. It's just not a socially mature way to behave.

    I think your best shot is to convince him to limit his attendance at these things. It sounds like you've tried, but his SJ sense of duty may be getting in the way. Appeal to his Thinking side, and have a rational conversation about why he chooses to come. Does he think he's going to have a good time? Does he feel like he's letting you down if he stays home? Is he jealous of what you might do without him? That knowledge, of his motivation, will be the first step to improving things.

    You've got to make him use his Thinking function. Maybe you can make him realize there's no logical reason for him to attend. You go out and have a good time, he stays home and finishes his book or plays WoW or whatever. If a sense of social obligation is in play, perhaps you can point out how socially unacceptable it is to act the way he does at these events; there's an obligation to be halfway decent to people in these situations. Have you told him explicitly that his behavior upsets you? His Te should be receptive to these things. As an introvert, he might even feel relieved if he commits to not attending some of these functions.

    The last idea I'll float: does he hate all your friends? I've already said that I don't usually like big parties, but if I've got someone to talk to all night, I'm set. You probably won't have a good time if you go out and then don't leave his side all night, but isn't there anyone else whose company he enjoys, who might talk to him when you're doing something else?

  7. #17
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    OK, I really do not intend to offend anyone, I am just really trying to understand how to fix this problem, or to just find out of it is even fixable. I just want to understand!
    Is there a particular girl in the group he seems to have taken an interest in?

  8. #18
    Perfect Gentleman! =D d@v3's Avatar
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    When I say "mature" I mean mature in a social sense? For instance, I think most people would either be strong enough to say "No, I don't want to go." or "Sure, I'll go." and have a good time, just for the sake of satisfying you.
    Freedom Isn't Free. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #19

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    maybe he 'likes the atmosphere but he cannot create it on his own'?

  10. #20
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    While I am not ISTJ, I still dont do clubs and when I go I dont go crazy. I personally enjoy the atmosphere, but not the socializing. He may feel pressured out of obligation like you said and that pressure alone may be causing the frustration. Like he wants to but he doesnt know how to let go. I know for me I wish I was that social, but I would be the one in the lounge just watching everything and enjoying that. What about a lower intensity club like a country club? Or maybe taking some private dancing lessons so he feels more comfortable.

    In the end he shouldnt feel obligated to go and needs to see where this obligation comes from. Could he possibly be afraid you will hook up with someone if he is not their or forget about him? Like getting caught up in the moment and doing things without thinking about it? Things like that always surface in a guys mind when it comes to clubs and stuff because of the atmosphere. Knowing ENFPs it may be your personality that causes this, not saying that you would do anything, just how you act may drive this fear. If you are a flirty and playful type it may take some time for him to learn to trust you. There are some struggles at first between an I and an E in regards to talking, socializing, etc that needs to be overcome.

    I know with me and my wife, I went to the social things and was uncomfortable, but I tried. My uncomfortableness was a drag on her despite the fact that I was out their trying so we just ended up not going to these things together as I dont want to be a drag on her fun. Its just not worth trying if its not gonna be appreciated. So there is a huge side of me that she doesnt see because of this and it suprises her the few times it does come out. My point in this is more step back and look at how you both interact together and what it takes to get him to get past this obligation feeling. ENFPs are really good with working with people, use that strength to try and work with him. Try to go with just him to a lower intensity bar/club and focus your attention on him and having fun with him instead of a group. Try things on a more one-on-one scale and possibly work upto the group setting, the group thing may be to much for him to handle right now and he may feel overwhelmed because of the intensity and doesnt fit in.

    From what I have read from other ISTJs sometimes you just need to force them to do things, its a balancing act when you do this as you need to know when to back down and then just not worry about it.

    I question for ISTJs, when a situation like this happens do you even notice the other people not having fun or do you get stuck in your frustration with yourself and possibly the things around you because you cant bring yourself to join in?
    Im out, its been fun

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