[ISFJ] Help with helping an ISFJ!

[GirlFromMars]

I don't mean that in a patronizing way. But here's the thing - my boyfriend has a problem with expressing himself. When it comes to the more serious/deeper things, he keeps his feelings/thoughts inside, and has to be prodded to get them out. I have to encourage him to talk (atlough admittedly, sometimes I just get annoyed by it, and get mad) He says he has a hard time to express himself, and I can see the struggle. It makes me feel bad for him, and makes me worry, and also can cause some frustration on my part at the same time. I know he has a lot of emotions. He shows it in his face, his actions, etc. and I've seen him cry a couple of times since we've been together. He's VERY sweet, loving, etc. and shows he cares. He tells me he loves me, so that's all fine. It's just when it comes to more serious stuff, and when in conflict situations. I've NEVER seen someone so passive in conflict situations, which also worries me. :| I guess I'm just wanting to help him to express himself, and also to not be so passive, because it seriously worries me. Any insights/opinions/tips/what-have-you? All I can think to do is to encourage him, but then I feel like I'm patronizing him, and sounding like his shrink.

 

[teslashock]

What you are describing is very common among ISxJs, particularly ISFJs, and I understand why as an INFP, this might be disconcerting for you. I've noticed that most ISxJs don't care too much about justifying or elaborating on their feelings and values. They have no real desire to make sense of them to you because that doesn't really do anything to bring them closer to their goals. They just use their values as their own personal roadmap to get through life, and how others interpret them is pretty much meaningless for them.

This can be applied to your issue with your ISFJ. Have you stopped to think that maybe your boyfriend values a measurable sense of outer peace more than an ambiguous sense of inner peace? Perhaps he reaches a feeling of "inner peace" by living in a contented outer world. Therefore, instead of surfacing any problems he might have, he lets them slide because it's genuinely more important to him, on a number of levels, to maintain an empirical sense of social harmony than it is to threaten such harmony with what he probably sees as "trivial" personal issues.

Just remember that Fi causes you to value emotional expression and putting things in terms of emotions, but Fe values keeping others' emotions in check so as to prevent any discordance in the outer world. It's quite possible that your ISFJ isn't really bottling anything up by being what you deem "passive." He probably genuinely cares more about maintaining happiness in his relationships than about surfacing any emotional qualms he might have, and he probably has no active desire to elaborate on his values. Therefore, it's very likely that he's not actively suppressing anything; he's just not interested in bringing the types of things that you value to the surface.

In fact, it may bother him even more to bring them to the surface than to keep them within, so asking him to do such a thing may not be for the best (even though it's probably hard for you to see it this way). As an INFP, this may come across as unhealthy to you, and if you did not bring your feelings to the surface, it probably would result in some rather unhealthy consequences, but remember that ISFJs and INFPs have totally different value systems, and you can't expect him to operate off of yours, and you should realize that yours is arbitrary and not the only way to achieve happiness.

 

[gracefully]

I can definitely relate to your boyfriend--in fact during conflict situations, I can be passive and non-communicative, choosing instead to distance myself and understand the problem on my own.

I can be seen as "moody." But the truth is, there is something on the back of my mind, I just choose not to share it with everybody.

My advice is to be just direct and upfront to him. Ask him how he feels. Tell him you can't understand and won't know his needs if he doesn't open up.

The other important thing is that he has to know he is safe with you, he has to trust you to a degree. Sometimes being ISFJ, we tend to hide a lot of things, because we think other people will view us as "weak". Other times its because we hate hurting other people, so we'd rather shut up about it and not share our feelings, (or worse, lie and tell you everything is okay when it's not). You have to assure him, in one way or another, that he won't be hurting you by being honest, and that you can deal with anything he dishes out.

Hope that helps.

 

[sticker]

What you are describing is very common among ISxJs, particularly ISFJs, and I understand why as an INFP, this might be disconcerting for you. I've noticed that most ISxJs don't care too much about justifying or elaborating on their feelings and values. They have no real desire to make sense of them to you because that doesn't really do anything to bring them closer to their goals. They just use their values as their own personal roadmap to get through life, and how others interpret them is pretty much meaningless for them.

I can agree with this.

As for the disparity in how both of you handle feelings, I guess it is the difference between Fi and Fe, even I sometimes end up feeling the need to explain why I feel strongly about certain things.

 

[Snow Turtle]

I can definitely relate to your boyfriend--in fact during conflict situations, I can be passive and non-communicative, choosing instead to distance myself and understand the problem on my own.

My advice is to be just direct and upfront to him. Ask him how he feels. Tell him you can't understand and won't know his needs if he doesn't open up.

The other important thing is that he has to know he is safe with you, he has to trust you to a degree. Sometimes being ISFJ, we tend to hide a lot of things, because we think other people will view us as "weak". Other times its because we hate hurting other people, so we'd rather shut up about it and not share our feelings, (or worse, lie and tell you everything is okay when it's not). You have to assure him, in one way or another, that he won't be hurting you by being honest, and that you can deal with anything he dishes out.

Hope that helps.

The bolded part. ISFJs like to address issues by themselves, and solve the internal conflict before thinking that it's necessary to bring it out into the open. The reasoning behind it all is, if a problem can be solved, then why drag out problems which will cause a negative impact on others.

If the problem can't be solved, then an ISFJ will eventually bring it up in conversation (or bottle it up due to fear). One thing that I'd suggest not doing is pushing too much on the issue... Just let them know that you're willing to listen anytime.

Why? Because forcing them to express themselves will eventually create a new problem with the ISFJ.

"I can't express myself therefore I am emotionally inadaquete. I can't make him or her happy in that sense."

You could potentially being leading him down a dangerous path with this. Give him time to do it naturally.

 

[KLessard]

The other important thing is that he has to know he is safe with you, he has to trust you to a degree. Sometimes being ISFJ, we tend to hide a lot of things, because we think other people will view us as "weak". Other times its because we hate hurting other people, so we'd rather shut up about it and not share our feelings, (or worse, lie and tell you everything is okay when it's not). You have to assure him, in one way or another, that he won't be hurting you by being honest, and that you can deal with anything he dishes out.

Hope that helps.

Okay!!! Now I get it. This ISFJ behaviour was so puzzling to me!

 

[GirlFromMars]

Thanks a lot for the replies. I will take the advice on board. I guess the main difference is probably Fi and Fe here? I don't mean to push him, I'm just used to talking about my feelings. I feel like if I don't it's very unhealthy for me, and I've always assumed it's unhealthy for everyone. I also (almost)always want to help people with their feelings. I'm just used to listening to people, and trying to open them up so I can help them, it comes naturally to me. I sometimes feel hurt, and even insulted sometimes, when someone doesn't seem to be opening up as much as I would. I guess some people really do just prefer to work it through themselves though. It's not like my boyfriend never shows any feelings, he definitely does. But there's often times where I feel like he's holding back. Could it be my own paranoia? Very possibly. And it's a lot worse in conflict situations - he'll just get realllly quiet, that's where the main problem with him expressing himself is. As for the trust thing - I would really hope he does trust me! But I understand that can be hard sometimes even when you love someone. I know ISFJ's are sensitive souls, and I've read that they're often very scared to let on how sensitive, and attached they can get?

 

[Sinmara]

Have you stopped to think that maybe your boyfriend values a measurable sense of outer peace more than an ambiguous sense of inner peace? Perhaps he reaches a feeling of "inner peace" by living in a contented outer world. Therefore, instead of surfacing any problems he might have, he lets them slide because it's genuinely more important to him, on a number of levels, to maintain an empirical sense of social harmony than it is to threaten such harmony with what he probably sees as "trivial" personal issues.

I've found this to be very true. An ISFJ will often sacrifice his own personal feelings for the betterment of the group. My ISFJ doesn't really see his own feelings as "big" enough to disrupt the harmony of the group and he will often let things go that bother him because he'd feel selfish for acting on every little thing. At the same time, he doesn't feel like he's repressing or suffering from doing this. If the people around him are happy, then he is happy.

In fact, it may bother him even more to bring them to the surface than to keep them within, so asking him to do such a thing may not be for the best (even though it's probably hard for you to see it this way).

Now, this, I am going to have to disagree with to a certain extent.

While it is true that ISFJs don't like to rock the boat and to make them react to every little thing they feel would be very upsetting to them, there are times when you need to put your foot down and make them stand up for themselves because the way they "let go" of every little thing can create a situation where they are being walked all over and taken advantage of. Also, this can create a situation where the ISFJ hides from the things that upset them and pretend they're not there. The ISFJs I've known have had a very bad habit of living in denial of the things that upset them and things will be let go until they have snowballed to the point to where they can't be ignored anymore.

There are times that they need to be forced outside of their comfort zone in order to learn some important lessons of self-worth and toughness. Sometimes they need someone to push them into the unhappy place so they can learn how to deal with it. An ISFJ who grows up allowing people to hurt them because they think slapping back would be too much of an uproar and they rationalize that dealing with a situation of steady, but mild unhappiness is better than the blowup that dealing with it would bring...yeah, that's a very unhappy ISFJ.

They need ESTPs like us to give them a reality check and kick their butt with supportive love.

 

[tinker683]

I've found this to be very true. An ISFJ will often sacrifice his own personal feelings for the betterment of the group. My ISFJ doesn't really see his own feelings as "big" enough to disrupt the harmony of the group and he will often let things go that bother him because he'd feel selfish for acting on every little thing. At the same time, he doesn't feel like he's repressing or suffering from doing this. If the people around him are happy, then he is happy.

Now, this, I am going to have to disagree with to a certain extent.

While it is true that ISFJs don't like to rock the boat and to make them react to every little thing they feel would be very upsetting to them, there are times when you need to put your foot down and make them stand up for themselves because the way they "let go" of every little thing can create a situation where they are being walked all over and taken advantage of. Also, this can create a situation where the ISFJ hides from the things that upset them and pretend they're not there. The ISFJs I've known have had a very bad habit of living in denial of the things that upset them and things will be let go until they have snowballed to the point to where they can't be ignored anymore.

There are times that they need to be forced outside of their comfort zone in order to learn some important lessons of self-worth and toughness. Sometimes they need someone to push them into the unhappy place so they can learn how to deal with it. An ISFJ who grows up allowing people to hurt them because they think slapping back would be too much of an uproar and they rationalize that dealing with a situation of steady, but mild unhappiness is better than the blowup that dealing with it would bring...yeah, that's a very unhappy ISFJ.

They need ESTPs like us to give them a reality check and kick their butt with supportive love.

+10!

See, this is why I love you ESxP's!! You guys are willing to see me for my strengths and when you see my weaknesses, you force me out to deal with it and make me a better person for it.

Petty is right about this. ISFJ's have a VERY bad tendency of letting people walk all over us and because we don't want to rock the boat or anything we rarely stand up for ourselves, which then only lets more people walk all over us and so on and so forth until we're utterly miserable and bitter.

I'm always so thankful for friends and loved ones who won't allow me to let myself get trampled on, will push me up on stage to deal with my problems, and then support me whatever results from it. These are the people I truly want for friends and/or lovers.

 

[Windigo]

My ISFJ daughter is very loving and very loyal. She is also VERY bothered by things (such as cute girls talking to her boyfriend). She knows that often her feelings are petty or "just her problem." However she has a difficult time hiding her feelings, so everyone knows she's upset, and wants to help her. This frustrates her deeply, because she already knows it's "her problem" and she doesn't want to talk through her feelings. It makes her very uncomfortable, because 1.) she's always worried she is going to say something she regrets and 2.) she hates being lectured more than ANYTHING! My daughter doesn't like to think to much about the relationship she's in, she just wants a mutual enjoyment of it.

I would say that your need to be emotionally validated through words is going to take a beating unless you can learn to read your boyfriend's way of communicating his love to you. As long as he is spending time with you (companionship) and having fun with you and doing things for you, he's got VERY intense feelings for you and you're good. Don't push for poetry or deep insights into their feelings.

Be careful, ISFJs I've known can have a nasty temper and *snap* when they feel they've been pushed too far. My daughter needs lots of space when she feels like she's getting close to the snapping point. If she's given space, she comes back like nothing at all happened. They are also the most forgiving people I know and they will expect you to be as forgiving of their faults as they are of yours.

 

[wrldisquiethere]

Have you tried giving him time to prepare for the "serious" conversations? I know for me I usually need quite a bit of time to process things. I need to feel prepared before I can speak. What about next time saying to him, "I really feel like we need to talk about such and such. Can we discuss it tomorrow evening over coffee?" It might help if he feels like he has enough time to prepare himself first.

I love INFPs but one thing I've noticed is that sometimes I am surprised by the serious conversations. Somehow I never see them coming. It takes me awhile to adjust before I can sort out my thoughts enough to respond.

 

[Giggly]

It sounds like you may see him as perfect and you need to SEE that he is not perfect.

I don't know how to tell you how to make him show you that he's not perfect but I'm sure that if you keep poking and prodding at him, he will show you.

I suspect that this will continue to bother you until then and it may be an ongoing future problem.

 

[GirlFromMars]

I love INFPs but one thing I've noticed is that sometimes I am surprised by the serious conversations. Somehow I never see them coming. It takes me awhile to adjust before I can sort out my thoughts enough to respond.

Ha, yeah, I can see that. It's because it seems like it comes from nowhere, I think that's probably an N thing? It's just that I'm thinking about things, even if there is no conversation going on that relates to it. Oftentimes I've been thinking about it alll day, then finally get to come out with it. I know that I can be too serious though. Thanks.

It sounds like you may see him as perfect and you need to SEE that he is not perfect.

I don't know how to tell you how to make him show you that he's not perfect but I'm sure that if you keep poking and prodding at him, he will show you.

I suspect that this will continue to bother you until then and it may be an ongoing future problem.

Nah, nobody is perfect. He is pretty amazing though, to me, just because I'm in love with him and he's a really good guy. I'm not sure why you think I think he's perfect? It's not a huge problem. We have a very good relationship, it just can be a bit of a problem at times. It's not enough to spoil our relationship though. My main reasons for posting this thread is because I worry about him when he's in passive mode, and I think he's not talking about his feelings.

 

[Giggly]

Nah, nobody is perfect. He is pretty amazing though, to me, just because I'm in love with him and he's a really good guy. I'm not sure why you think I think he's perfect? It's not a huge problem. We have a very good relationship, it just can be a bit of a problem at times. It's not enough to spoil our relationship though. My main reasons for posting this thread is because I worry about him when he's in passive mode, and I think he's not talking about his feelings.

I don't think he's perfect, no ones perfect. I said that because I've heard people with your same complaint before that was the reason they had the complaint, but if you don't feel that way then that's good.

The issue you express can be a complicated though. Sometimes I feel like talking about feelings in a negative situation is uncalled for and sometimes it can do more damage to an already unfavorable situation when you talk about them. It seems to be a toss up... sometimes there's good results when I talk about my feelings and sometimes there's bad results. I know this is frustrating to those who are curious about what I am feeling but I try to deal with it on my own and not drag another person down over problems that are my own, especially someone that I care about. I think there was even some research done a while ago that suggested that talking about feelings is not always productive. I find myself searching for the patience to deal with people who feel the need to express their every single negative feeling or thought so I do find it to be slightly unappealing. If I feel that way about someone else doing it, but will be patient with them anyway, its unlikely that I will do it myself.

edit: I found that article.

Not Talking About Some Things May Be Ok | Psych Central News

 

[Sinmara]

Ok, coming back to touch on another point.

I would say that your need to be emotionally validated through words is going to take a beating unless you can learn to read your boyfriend's way of communicating his love to you. As long as he is spending time with you (companionship) and having fun with you and doing things for you, he's got VERY intense feelings for you and you're good. Don't push for poetry or deep insights into their feelings.

Have you tried giving him time to prepare for the "serious" conversations? I know for me I usually need quite a bit of time to process things. I need to feel prepared before I can speak. What about next time saying to him, "I really feel like we need to talk about such and such. Can we discuss it tomorrow evening over coffee?" It might help if he feels like he has enough time to prepare himself first.

I love INFPs but one thing I've noticed is that sometimes I am surprised by the serious conversations. Somehow I never see them coming. It takes me awhile to adjust before I can sort out my thoughts enough to respond.

ISFJs need time. Time to think, time to self-examine, time to figure out how they really feel about something. You can't give them a question and expect them to immediately spring back with an answer. I'm not saying that he's going to ponder the benefits of 1% vs 2% milk in the dairy aisle for an hour, but if it's something important, he's going to want to make what he feels is the right choice. If he's rushed into anything, he's going to have feelings of regret, and possibly resentment, that he wasn't allowed to think about it.

When I pose an issue to my boyfriend, the discussion seems to take place in stages. First I lay out what the issue is and we talk enough for him to get the general idea of what I'm saying. Then that evening or the next day, we talk a little more for clarification so he can make sure that he has a correct grasp of what the issue is. Then throughout the following week, he'll bring it up every so often to talk to me about his thoughts concerning the issue, basically touching bases with me to see how I feel about the conclusions he's come to, and he'll take what I say into consideration and go back to sorting things out.

This process will continue for as long as it has to until his thoughts have arrived at a final resting place and he's made his final decision about what his true feelings and opinion is.

The bigger the issue, the longer it'll take him to make a decision of how he feels about it, especially if it involves making people unhappy. He stayed in an abusive relationship with his ex-wife for 8 years when he knew that he wanted out by year 2. He only just recently came to a final decision about a huge, huge problem within our circle of friends that came up a year ago. In each case, he went through every possibility, considered the opinions from each side of the situation, how he would deal with things if he had to make an unpopular decision, etc -- he went through every minute aspect of the situation thoroughly in his head. He had to be at peace with the idea that he was going to hurt people with his decision before he went through with it.

He tends to come to the right decision, but it takes time. If I try to make him make a snap decision about something fairly involved or important, he'll become very stressed and upset. He doesn't like feeling as though I'm putting him on the spot.

My ISFJ best friend is the same way. We've been talking about her moving to California and living with me for years now, but even though she would love to and she knows she'll be happy out here with me, she's taking her time in making the choice to move out here because it means she'll have to leave her (worthless) family and (selfish) friends to start a new life. However badly they treat her and however unhappy they make her, she still has ties to them and she wants to make her exit as painless for everyone as possible, because having to deal with people being upset at her would be horrible.

I like to think of ISFJs as lovable little turtles. I gotta have patience.

 

[Snow Turtle]

Ok, coming back to touch on another point.





ISFJs need time. Time to think, time to self-examine, time to figure out how they really feel about something. You can't give them a question and expect them to immediately spring back with an answer. I'm not saying that he's going to ponder the benefits of 1% vs 2% milk in the dairy aisle for an hour, but if it's something important, he's going to want to make what he feels is the right choice. If he's rushed into anything, he's going to have feelings of regret, and possibly resentment, that he wasn't allowed to think about it.

When I pose an issue to my boyfriend, the discussion seems to take place in stages. First I lay out what the issue is and we talk enough for him to get the general idea of what I'm saying. Then that evening or the next day, we talk a little more for clarification of so he can make sure that he has a correct grasp of what the issue is. Then throughout the following week, he'll bring it up every so often to talk to me about his thoughts concerning the issue, basically touching bases with me to see how I feel about the conclusions he's come to, and he'll take what I say into consideration and go back to sorting things out.

This process will continue for as long as it has to until his thoughts have arrived at a final resting place and he's made his final decision about what his true feelings and opinion is.

The bigger the issue, the longer it'll take him to make a decision of how he feels about it, especially if it involves making people unhappy. He stayed in an abusive relationship with his ex-wife for 8 years when he knew that he wanted out by year 2. He only just recently came to a final decision about a huge, huge problem within our circle of friends that came up a year ago. In each case, he went through every possibility, considered the opinions from each side of the situation, how he would deal with things if he had to make an unpopular decision, etc -- he went through every minute aspect of the situation thoroughly in his head. He had to be at peace with the idea that he was going to hurt people with his decision before he went through with it.

He tends to come to the right decision, but it takes time. If I try to make him make a snap decision about something fairly involved or important, he'll become very stressed and upset. He doesn't like feeling as though I'm putting him on the spot.

My ISFJ best friend is the same way. We've been talking about her moving to California and living with me for a years now, but even though she would love to and she knows she'll be happy out here with me, she's taking her time in making the choice to move out here because it means she'll have to leave her (worthless) family and (selfish) friends to start a new life. However badly they treat her and however unhappy they make her, she still has ties to them and she wants to make her exit as painless for everyone as possible, because having to deal with people being upset at her would be horrible.

I like to think of ISFJs as lovable little turtles. I gotta have patience.

I just want to say: You have an amazing grasp on how ISFJs (at least me) function.

 

[Sinmara]

I just want to say: You have an amazing grasp on how ISFJs (at least me) function.

Thank you! I've apparently been collecting you ISFJ people for years without realizing it so I guess it's all just from experience.

 

[wrldisquiethere]

Yes, good post Pettycure.

 

[GirlFromMars]

Thank you! Lots of helpful advice here. I appreciate it. Patience.

 

[Windigo]

I like to think of ISFJs as lovable little turtles. I gotta have patience.

This is a good way for me to remember to deal with my daughter . . . as an ENTJ I tend to steamroll her to much and then I feel horrible. I'm always projecting what I think she's thinking and getting mad at her.

She's learned how to state very quietly . . . you think you know me, but you don't.

Ouch that hurts, but it gets me to shut up and listen! She always comes back and talks to me and she's very forgiving. Yeah, she's my lovable turtle.