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  1. #51
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    It seems all a little pointless since in this Feelers mind.

    "You are being rude and insensitive" is connected to "You are making me feel bad" for the obvious reasons that things are deemed inappropriate because they have a negative impact on certain individuals. If the individual didn't care, they would not call you up for being rude.

    It doesn't really make much sense to respond differently to an Fi vs Fe based message when they are both interconnected.
    They're not interconnected. Fe and Fi build their moral value systems on different standards.

    "You are being rude" suggests that one is violating an external community standard of ethics. The implication is that most people would consider your behavior to be rude--Fe builds its moral worldview based on external community standards.

    "You are making me feel bad" suggests that one is violating a personal, internal standard of ethics. Fi builds its moral worldview based on subjective internal values.

    This is the difference between Fe and Fi. Fe-ers tend to show more respect for the former, and Fi-ers for the latter.


    Quote Originally Posted by highlander29 View Post
    So then the "you are making me feel bad" would work better with an INTJ because they would prefer Fi, right? I know if I were the person getting the feedback and you told me I was rude and thoughtless, I may get defensive. I may think that is your opinion. If you told me how you felt however, that is a fact, which I could not deny or argue with. If it was my friend, I would be motivated to deal with it.
    Yup. Externally imposed ethical standards are nonsensical to INTJs (and all Fi users.)
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #52
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    They're not interconnected. Fe and Fi build their moral value systems on different standards.

    "You are being rude" suggests that one is violating an external community standard of ethics. The implication is that most people would consider your behavior to be rude--Fe builds its moral worldview based on external community standards.

    "You are making me feel bad" suggests that one is violating a personal, internal standard of ethics. Fi builds its moral worldview based on subjective internal values.

    This is the difference between Fe and Fi. Fe-ers tend to show more respect for the former, and Fi-ers for the latter.
    Yes, but where is does this motivation to pay respect to Fe based reasoning come from in the first place? Are these rules created surely are derived from empathy-understanding based positions.

  3. #53
    Senior Member MoneyTick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gracefully View Post
    I have been friends with an INTJ for over five years now.I am thinking of breaking off my friendship with her because of the way she treats me. I am really sick of the way she looks down at me. She even told me to my face that I am "simple" and "boring."I tried to let comments like this slide, but she kept doing it again

    After graduating from college, I applied to a secretarial job and she looked down on me again, insinuating how I can enjoy doing routine jobs, which to her is so boring. In contrast, I have stayed supportive of her career 100%.

    I understand that others might interpret her as being rational and objective (as an INTJ)--however how can I not feel affected when she is attacking my person?

    I also understand that she is a Thinker and Intuitive, so she can see possiblities about the future and she is more confident in her abilities. But, the way she makes me feel like I am inferior and second class citizen.

    I have been a good friend to her, always there when she needs me and been supportive no matter what. . Even when we go out, I let her lead as she wants to.

    I have to draw the line. I am planning on ending this friendship this year, and hopefully this is the right choice. I don't like being used or being treated as doormats.
    Typical I/E conflict.

    Draw the line - change I to E.

    Try NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming)

    Trust me, heed my advice and a year later you'll be hunting down for me with a box of chocolates and a nice-gift tie

  4. #54
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    When someone violates basic manners, it's like somebody farting aloud in public. I assume they can't help it, am embarrassed for them, and pretend not to notice, to spare their feelings.

    To have to tell someone you don't appreciate being called simple and boring is like having to tell someone not to fart in public, and it's just about as distasteful a conversation, so I don't envy you.

    My first thought is, why bother talking to someone who can't figure out for herself not to call you names. My second thought is, maybe she really doesn't realize there's anything going on between your ears unless you spell it out specifically for her. And maybe it's worth doing that, since the association has been so long term. As other people have pointed out, you wouldn't be losing anything.

    Best of luck either way!

  5. #55
    Member Rachel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeatheredFrenzy View Post
    Do you guys think this is a natural part of friendship? (honest question)

    I normally just EXPECT respect and decency. Is that unrealistic? I don't believe in having to police people.
    Yeah,

    If she's not showing you the necessary respect, then cutting ties is a reasonable option. I don't see the need to assert yourself to the INTJ. Her lack of sensitivity is not justifiable because of type. I don't think she is owed anything since she's been dismissive and disrespectful. If she doesn't get it, maybe letting her go will give you the peace of mind you need.

    I know a married INTJ/ISFJ couple, apart from the whole-hearted appreciation for my existence , i really wish it was an NF/SF rather than a NTJ/SFJ pairing. I know the SF has suffered quite a bit from the NT's stubborn Fi, and tendency to be somewhat belittling towards the SF when she doesn't understand something or when she doesn't share the same perspective. And i'm very similar to the NT in my way of thinking which i realize is not good. The SFJ, humble, tries very hard to accommodate and please everyone without wanting recognition, to her own detriment, as long as she is respected. While the NT, although very giving, needs continual recognition or acknowledgment, demonstrating or showing that they are right/correct.

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