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  1. #11
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Wow, what was the context of being called "simple" and "boring"? I am trying to consider a scenario where I would not be immediately very insulted and end the conversation. It's a big difference if someone calls your outfit "boring" or tells you that you have "simple needs" to telling someone they are "boring" (period) and "simple" (period).

    I think more important than the relationship with the INTJ here is the principle - don't let anyone make you feel like crap. You do NOT have to put up with it. And often the simplest thing - just speaking up and saying it out loud - makes a world of difference. This is an extremely important life lesson to learn now. There will be many more people like the INTJ in your life.

    If the relationship ends, it ends, but you owe it yourself and even to her to explain yourself. At least give her a chance.

    But for sure, tell her how insulting her comments are to you and more importantly, how you feel she looks down upon you and why. Tell her you don't need her to agree with your life choices but you need to be treated with respect. You can also put a little bite into it and say how ironic you think it is that an INTJ (her) would call someone else boring. Explain to her that there are many faults of hers that you could point out, unsolicitied, but you don't because of X, Y, Z reasons and that is why you take offense when she does it to you, in the way that she does.

    I think from that point once you tell her how you feel it will all be about how good you both are at communicating. If she's willing and able, she might tell you that she does respect you and she is just talking to you like she talks to "everyone else". A good response here is that you are *not* "everyone else" and that you've invested enough in each other to be worth a little more effort. Etc.

    Honestly, I've seen similar confrontations/conversations go either way, to an extreme. So much is out of your hands and so much relies on both of your comfort levels with confrontation. So I wouldn't worry too much past the part where you say your piece. The goal here is to get it all off your chest (in a constructive way) and put the ball in her court. That should be your focus.

    At the very least, it will be a good exercise and opportunity for you.

    Tell us how it goes!
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

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  2. #12
    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    I think more important than the relationship with the INTJ here is the principle - don't let anyone make you feel like crap. You do NOT have to put up with it. And often the simplest thing - just speaking up and saying it out loud - makes a world of difference. This is an extremely important life lesson to learn now. There will be many more people like the INTJ in your life.


    I know you said you have tried to stand up to her, but I'm not convinced that you were as direct as is necessary with INTJ's. A sledgehammer, I find, is usually necessary with these guys...

    I've had an ISFJ try to stand up to me once, and I didn't even recognise that this was what she was doing, until someone else told me. It looked to me like she was terrified to just hit that ball over the net and put it in my court, almost like she was hinting to me to give her my PERMISSION to do it while I just stood there watching her bouncing it around her side of the court, if you will; she seemed very vague. It left me feeling a little confused as to what she was actually trying to achieve, and my impression was "well, if it's not important enough for her to say it like she means it, it's probably nothing to worry about".

    Whack it over, I say. See what they do with it. But keep whacking it right over. NT's tend to be quite good at sending it back, but you've gotta keep the focus on the fact that you're talking about THEM being rude to YOU, so THEY are the ones who need to explain and apologise, not you. Don't let them turn it into an abstract/academic debate about whether people "in general" should do this or do that or what they usually do or whatever, so it becomes about you having to explain and defend your perception.
    I'm male and over 30, FYI.
    Preferences: 20% Extravert, 98% Intuitive, 68% Thinker, 17% Perceiving

  3. #13
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Thinking about it, what does a friendship with somebody that calls you boring and simple add to your life? Just never talk to her anymore, that's probably the best solution. Purposefully trying to stir up drama will just waste your energies towards furthering a nonsensical friendship.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  4. #14
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    with INTJs you may need to be extremely direct.

    YOU ARE HURTING ME. I LOVE YOU AND CARE FOR YOU BUT YOU ARE HURTING ME.

    STOP IT NOW. YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW MY MIND WORKS OR WHAT I WANT OUT OF LIFE. I AM HAPPY!@!!!!!!!

    or something like that. It will be really hard for you, but I'd suggest drinking a bit. Maybe cut and paste the above into an email you send her as it might even be hard for you to write something so direct.

    All the subtle little cues are utterly lost on her. She cant see them. You need to take the catastrophic approach.

    As an isfj, you will come across as an amazingly loving, beautiful, caring person. You nurture those around you. You dont bring the things she has to the table but then she may end up very lonely due to what she has. You have enormous value and will not be appreciated always by us looney Ns as we live in outerspace somewhere. Dont let her get you down or take the things she says to heart too much.

    My intj told me I might have gotten my phd if I hadn't been so lazy. It was three seconds of sharp pain, followed by me bursting out laughing at her... They are kinda oblivious about this stuff, so once you understand that it becomes easier to forgive them.

    also-tell her-dont apply YOUR standards to ME. I want different things out of life than you.

    good luck!

  5. #15
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    with INTJs you may need to be extremely direct.

    YOU ARE HURTING ME. I LOVE YOU AND CARE FOR YOU BUT YOU ARE HURTING ME.

    STOP IT NOW. YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW MY MIND WORKS OR WHAT I WANT OUT OF LIFE. I AM HAPPY!@!!!!!!!
    Well, why should she waste 3 days (one day anticipating how to start this conversation and how the other person might react, the next day feeling anxious because she is going to do it, the day after feeling bad for letting it happen) thinking about this, while she could more easily cut ties completely? Nobody wants a friend that is super-rude to you. It's better if the INTJ in questions understands this by losing friends rather than by getting away with some shouting.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  6. #16
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Gracefully, I'm sorry someone you consider a friend has verbally abused you in the manner this woman has.

    You've been given some great advice in this thread. If directly confronting this person in a more obvious and assertive manner isn't something you find yourself able to do, try putting all your thoughts and feelings in an email and send it to her. You can then bring it up in person after the email has been exchanged. Since you're both introverts, maybe written communication will invite more involved exchanges.

    Generally, I find the attitude of your friend something that disgusts me greatly about many people on this forum. So many posters have basically said the exact same thing about sensors in their life; that they're simple, shallow, uninteresting, unimaginative, uncreative, that they can't connect to them. People who claim to be empathetic, sensitive, and caring towards the lot of humanity have a superiority complex towards half of the people they come into contact with. That's why I think so many people here are full of sh*t. Understanding is a two-way street, actually it's more like 12-lane interstate, with ramps, local lanes, thru lanes, ever shifting speed limits, and conflicting and confusing signs.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
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    Social Penetration Theory 3

  7. #17
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    If you've explained clearly that her actions are unacceptable in a friendship and she doesn't agree and start to change her actions, there is no sense in spending time with her. Friends are supposed to be a positive thing, something you look forward to, that's why you choose them.

    I have a feeling that she would take you seriously only if you told her "I am not hanging out with you today and this is why" and only then she might put an effort towards changing. Or not. Regardless, type is no excuse for poor behaviour. Plenty of INTJs are good friends.
    -end of thread-

  8. #18
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Why would you be friends with someone who calls you simple and boring? :s I would blow up and then end all contact with someone like that, and neither would I nor any of my friends who are NT's talk to someone like that unless they were really pissed off.

    It doesn't sound like this "friend" is healthy if she talks to you like that, surely hang around with other people and tell this person to get psychological help

    BTW does this friend come from a rich background (either that or she is severely socially retarded)? Usually that kind of arrogance can only be explained that way. I don't think it has much to do with type as most of my friends are NT's, and none treat people like that.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  9. #19
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Good luck navigating social situations with this assumption in mind, really. Let's go one step further: it's women's fault when they get raped.
    That is not what I meant at all.

    And you are blowing things out of context.

    What I meant was if a friend of you is treating you in a certain manner which is not acceptable but if you continue to let her treat you that way without telling her that she is doing something wrong or that you (the victim) doesn't like to be treated that way it is your fault for not standing up to her and saying how you feel.

    -----------------------------

    A woman being raped by a man is a totally different context. The two situations cannot be compared. They (rape is not) are not open for discussions.

    -----------------------------

    But of course you wouldn't understand the difference since you seem to believe that rape is a social situation.
    Last edited by Bellflower; 01-18-2010 at 10:39 AM. Reason: removed insult

  10. #20
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander29 View Post
    IMHO - Don't rub anything in anybody's face and don't break anything off. As someone with a lot of experience with INTJ/ISFJ relationships, I can recommend that you just be direct and tell her how you feel. I think you don't like confrontation, which is understandable, but it doesn't need to be that way. INTJs like directness and honesty. They appreciate this.

    She is probably just not thinking through things with the right lens. She probably has a great deal of respect for you and thinks you are capable of so much more. She sees your great interpersonal skills and wishes she had some of them. You need to educate her on what you want out of life and how your goals in life are different than hers.
    I recommend that you read her replies. Before letting us know your words of wisdom.

    She has already directly told her how she feels but it hasn't worked

    She probably has a great deal of respect for you? well she has a nice way of showing it. [Sarcasm]

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