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Thread: ESTJ Boss

  1. #11
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Hell yes! Do not ever back down, from anyone. Fuck it. If it's on, it's on. The worst that will happen is you end up in the ER.
    yay for ESTP advice!


    in all seriousness though, Halla's first post on this thread is excellent advice for dealing with Evil Sick Torturous Jackasses.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #12
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    (2) To get him off your back, be direct.
    Really? When I do that with ESTJs, it usually (well, always) ends up in a fist-fight. Perhaps we just sense each other's unbearable Te lol
    I must admit, I have my own faults, since I never give in to any of their "orders", even if they're my boss (I usually don't have this problem with boss of other types). Every job I've had where my superior was an ESTJ, I've been fired from.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  3. #13
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Really? When I do that with ESTJs, it usually (well, always) ends up in a fist-fight. Perhaps we just sense each other's unbearable Te lol
    I must admit, I have my own faults, since I never give in to any of their "orders", even if they're my boss (I usually don't have this problem with boss of other types). Every job I've had where my superior was an ESTJ, I've been fired from.
    Well, yes it sometimes results in conflict, but that is how they interact. You need to have evidence and facts to back up your position though or you get ripped to shreds. That doesn't mean you can't be direct while at the same times being diplomatic and keeping your head. You have to be very careful when they are in "reacting" mode or it can turn ugly.

  4. #14
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    yay for ESTP advice!
    Hah! Just don't let us near your refrigerator, debit card, or ovulating women.

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    in all seriousness though, Halla's first post on this thread is excellent advice for dealing with Evil Sick Torturous Jackasses.
    Nice wording above! Muhaa.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Really? When I do that with ESTJs, it usually (well, always) ends up in a fist-fight. Perhaps we just sense each other's unbearable Te lol
    I must admit, I have my own faults, since I never give in to any of their "orders", even if they're my boss (I usually don't have this problem with boss of other types). Every job I've had where my superior was an ESTJ, I've been fired from.
    Hey FDG, if its either (1) get into a fist fight, or (2) get shit on by an abusive freak, then I will choose the fist fight, every time. IME, they have been alot easier to deal with once you stand up to them. Honestly, I think that alot of their over the topic reactions are show, triggered by that strong default attachment they have to their construct of order (and that it is NEVER wrong ) but once you show some balls and have evidence to back your case, then I've had no trouble with them. Now, if you disagree with them and have NOTHING to show, it gets really fucking ugly...FAST.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander29 View Post
    Well, yes it sometimes results on conflict, but that is how they interact. You need to have evidence and facts to back up your position though or you get ripped to shreds. That doesn't mean you can't be direct while at the same times being diplomatic and keeping your head. You have to be very careful when they are in "reacting" mode or it can turn ugly.
    Beautifully put, THIS!
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    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

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  5. #15
    Senior Member Chunes's Avatar
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    My father is an ESTJ, and especially considering my type, we've had a lottttttt of head-butting over the years. So I feel somewhat merited in giving some advice. ESTJs need frequent status updates. You may not feel like giving them, but if you don't, they'll get miffed and even pissed off.

    They usually trigger the conflict; they sort of show up and shove a heap of crap in your face and insinuate 'challenge me or bow before me.' You'll be peaceably living your life and all of a sudden they take this fight to you that you had no intention of ever participating in. I'm pretty sure they must thrive off aggression and domination. I can't think of any other reasons for their behavior. They are constantly testing other people, so they can get whatever sick rush they get from hurting others. Sorry I don't have much good to say about them. I'm trying.
    "If you would convince a man that he does wrong, do right. But do not care to convince him. Men will believe what they see. Let them see."
    Thoreau

  6. #16
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    The only other thing I will mention is that if they are the boss - remember they are the boss. Try and understand how they are evaluated and make them look good. You can voice an opinion, you can suggest alternatives, you can be honest and direct, you do not have to be a doormat. At the end of the day though, you need to be able to take direction.

  7. #17
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chunes View Post
    My father is an ESTJ, and especially considering my type, we've had a lottttttt of head-butting over the years. So I feel somewhat merited in giving some advice. ESTJs need frequent status updates. You may not feel like giving them, but if you don't, they'll get miffed and even pissed off.
    My Dad is an ESTJ too. I'm an ESTP.

    Your status update strategy is a good one, as it "defuses the bomb."

    Quote Originally Posted by Chunes View Post
    They usually trigger the conflict; they sort of show up and shove a heap of crap in your face and insinuate 'challenge me or bow before me.' You'll be peaceably living your life and all of a sudden they take this fight to you that you had no intention of ever participating in. I'm pretty sure they must thrive off aggression and domination. I can't think of any other reasons for their behavior. They are constantly testing other people, so they can get whatever sick rush they get from hurting others. Sorry I don't have much good to say about them. I'm trying.
    Interesting you note the above. The #1 and #2 MBTI types most likely to exhibit control freak tendencies: (1) ESTJ, and (2) ESTP.

    Once I realized that control was an illusion (thank you, Mother, I shall always be in your debt for this lesson) I got over feeling a need to be "in control" of things.

    Also, the degree that an ESTJ has developed a sense of empathy is integral in their relations with people. My Dad is actually a very good man. He got a master's degree in education and specialized in counseling. He worked with soldiers that were about to get in serious trouble for any number of reasons, family difficulty, disciplinary issues, alcohol/drug abuse, etc. He got their attention, won them over, and got hem back on track.

    However, even in the midst of this type of human-centric life coaching skill, he was an absolute terror as my soccer coach, and most assuredly the undisputed king of the household AND of his office. Ironically enough no one ever challenged him at either location! That is just how they are, direct, blunt, authoritative, confrontational, but that does not mean that they are devoid of capacity to be well intended or altruistic. They are an interesting type because their intentions often get missed by others because their DELIVERY is so often unecessarily abrasive.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander29 View Post
    The only other think I will mention is that if they are the boss - remember they are the boss. Try and understand how they are evaluated and make them look good. You can voice an opinion, you can suggest alternatives, you can be honest and direct, you do not have to be a doormat. At the end of the day though, you need to be able to take direction.
    Dude, I love every sentence of your response above.

    The part about respecting your boss simply because that is their office, and as their staff, you need to be able to take direction, that is advice of paramount importance to anyone. Rock on, Bro.
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

  8. #18
    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
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    As far as your boss and his/her company is concerned, YOU are an input to the output. Yes. You.

    You are a commodity. You are LABOR, and nothing else to him. All that matters is that you produce. Produce, produce, produce. Make like the hen with the eggs. :chicken: :chicken: :chicken: :chicken:

    Do that, and you have nothing to worry about.

  9. #19
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    As far as your boss and his/her company is concerned, YOU are an input to the output. Yes. You.

    You are a commodity. You are LABOR, and nothing else to him. All that matters is that you produce. Produce, produce, produce. Make like the hen with the eggs. :chicken: :chicken: :chicken: :chicken:

    Do that, and you have nothing to worry about.
    If a boss dared to say that to me, I'll produce a basket of eggs on his-her face
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  10. #20
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    If a boss dared to say that to me, I'll produce a basket of eggs on his-her face
    There is an enormous amount of variety between ESTJs. Some examples of my peers or people I have worked for (all fairly senior level people):

    1. Example 1 (peer) - In many ways, is and comes across as really great guy. Respected for his effectiveness in HR matters. Very bottom line oriented. Has rigid views and can pick a fight if those views aren't respected. I like him, but he does have a tendency to not help people progress and can get them fired. He can also stab others in the back but never seems to get caught.

    2. Example 2 (peer) - Not so polished as number one. Highly successful and very deep expertise, which she is respected for. Sticks up for her people like nobody you'd ever meet. Gets a little excited at times. Not as well rounded as the others.

    3. Example 3 (boss) - Incredible guy to work for. Mature and well developed ESTJ, who is well respected in wide circles. I have had few better bosses. Did not micromanage at all. No complaints whatsoever.

    4. Example 4 (boss) - Very senior level person. Focuses on the next three months financials and nothing more. On the same token, he is a very good leader in his own right and in many ways is an effective coach.

    5. Example 5 (peer) - Off the chart ESTJ. There is one right way. His way. Very good guy, but I do not always agree with his approach which at times is over-engineered. Fanatical advocate for his people.

    They are all very different. So, it is hard to say what yours is like.

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