[ISFJ] ISFJ hatred

[Snow Turtle]

You stand up for the sinner? I'm sorry, I can't agree with that. I stand up for the innocent and the needy. I will only stand up for the sinner if he repents.
I won't punish the sinner myself, but if I see that person get in trouble, I do see that it's catching up on him. It is healthy for that person's conscience to have this happen.

That's a really interesting way of putting it. Guess it's true.

Mind if I start a topic on it?
Quite interested in the different opinions on this matter now.

 

[KLessard]

That's a really interesting way of putting it. Guess it's true.

Mind if I start a topic on it?
Quite interested in the different opinions on this matter now.

Go for it!

 

[NewEra]

I know this one ISFJ who always seems to hold a grudge for a long time if she got into an argument with that person. This happened with me, and I'm the opposite - never hold grudges, and usually forgive people immediately. So the whole situation was puzzling, can't understand the somewhat childish attitude.

 

[run]

my passive-aggressive mom. she'll bend over backwards for me, but fight--not argues, fights--with me about shit. She holds double-standards that are plain as day and she doesn't seem to think her words and choices of expression have an effect on me. I call her out on her crap and she goes "it was a simple statement" - no it wasn't, bullshit, thats how you act when you give me your prescriptive traditionalist advice with a harsh tone, like i'm a bad person or some shit.

 

[Glass Forest]

Honestly...it's something I don't like about myself. I don't like that I can have such an overwhelming lack of respect and contempt for someone I care about. He's still my brother and I still love him as such but I honestly wish he would wake up one morning and have someone beat the living hell out him.

I can't understand this.

You have an overwhelming lack of respect and contempt for him, and you honestly wish that he would have someone beat the living hell out of him.

Yet you say that you care about him and love him?

An ISFJ has said a similar thing to me before and it is a paradox, i cannot get my head around it.

The truth is that if you feel like that about someone, you don't care about them nor love them. The fact that he is your brother changes nothing.
I know this isn't how an SJ thinks... but 'social conventions say i should love him' doesn't mean 'i love him'.

 

[Giggly]

I might be wrong about her feeling suddenly useless. How would you feel, Giggly? I respect your input.

If it were the first time I've ever lost someone close to me then yes I would feel very lost and scared, especially if I have no one in my life to encourage me that life goes on.

 

[Giggly]

my passive-aggressive mom. she'll bend over backwards for me, but fight--not argues, fights--with me about shit. She holds double-standards that are plain as day and she doesn't seem to think her words and choices of expression have an effect on me. I call her out on her crap and she goes "it was a simple statement" - no it wasn't, bullshit, thats how you act when you give me your prescriptive traditionalist advice with a harsh tone, like i'm a bad person or some shit.

Bad INTP. BAD!

JUST KIDDING

 

[miss fortune]

ooh- I like ISFJs!

they generally seem to be amused by me and somewhat tolerant and they're just so damned nice to me that I tend to think that they're great

I really wish they'd quit telling me to be careful, calling me to make sure that I'm still alive and telling me to wrap up when it's cold out though....

 

[run]

I really wish they'd quit telling me to be careful, calling me to make sure that I'm still alive and telling me to wrap up when it's cold out though....

yeah... do ya need a million dollars? i can get ya a million dollars if you need a million dollars...

 

[SubjectA]

My younger brother. He and I haven't seen eye to eye for a long time and I've discovered the best way to just get along is to avoid him at all costs and associate myself with him as little as possible.

We used to get along fairly well until he got into high school, then it was like his personality changed and he became this arrogant, extremely self-centered Captain America Marine Commando type. Ever since then I haven't been able to stand being around him for a prolonged period of time.

Honestly...it's something I don't like about myself. I don't like that I can have such an overwhelming lack of respect and contempt for someone I care about. He's still my brother and I still love him as such but I honestly wish he would wake up one morning and have someone beat the living hell out him.

Most of the time I'm cordial with him but that's the best I can muster. I doubt he's aware of just how deeply I dislike him but I doubt he'd care. His head is so far up his butt he wouldn't notice anyway. I just try to stay away from him when I can, It's best that way.

I don't get this either. I can understand sibling annoyance. But this I don't. It sounds like he's someone you just put up with because he's family rather than love or respect. Honestly if you can't picture doing virtually ANYTHING for this person, let alone at least stand being around them, how can you actually love them?

 

[tinker683]

I can't understand this.

You have an overwhelming lack of respect and contempt for him, and you honestly wish that he would have someone beat the living hell out of him.

Yet you say that you care about him and love him?

An ISFJ has said a similar thing to me before and it is a paradox, i cannot get my head around it.

The truth is that if you feel like that about someone, you don't care about them nor love them. The fact that he is your brother changes nothing.
I know this isn't how an SJ thinks... but 'social conventions say i should love him' doesn't mean 'i love him'.

When I look at him I see two people: The little brother I used to know and the man he is today. The little brother I used to know was your average guy...nothing special but nothing horrible either. Fairly honest, got along well with everyone, was looking for his own place in the world.

He and I got along very well back then. We had (and still to some degree still have) similar interests and we were close to each other in that respect.

I don't know when exactly it happened, I only know that in high school he started to change. He became this really arrogant, selfish shockjock who kept telling everyone what kind of a badass Marine he was going to be. That was when he and I very violently ripped apart. He became this bullying, selfish little bastard that had this attitude of "Me First" for EVERYTHING. I watched him exploit people over and over again just to get what he wanted. When he got it, he discarded them like banana peels. Over and over again I had to listen to people tell me about what kind of an asshole he was.

Then he went into the Marine's....and promptly got kicked out after bootcamp because he totally flipped out and realized he couldn't do it. He went AWOL, starting doing drugs, and a whole lot of other things. We brought him back home and we started nurturing him back to normal (or at least as normal as he can be). We got him off the drugs and provided him a safe environment to grow back into and re-stabilize.

I had hoped that the whole experience would instill into him some sense of humility and reality, that it would make him realize the importance of considering other peoples feeling when dealing with them. For a little while, it did. But it wasn't too long that he fell back into his old self, expecting everyone to cater to his whims and his alone (and to hell with everyone else!) and that's how he's been ever since.

In simplest terms, he's a User: A mooch, a deadbeat, a parasite. Once you start providing him with something, anything, he begins to act like it's his God-given right to receive it. Don't even get me started on the arguments we've had about who should provide for what or how a person should be (He's of the opinion that since I make more money than he does that I have to help him pay for his rent and food while he goes out partying and getting drunk every night) or what he's done to some of the women in his life (The car he drives now he got from a woman who fell for him. He was really sweet to her up and until she sold him his car, then he promptly dropped her like a bad habit).

So yes, I do have an overwhelming lack of respect and contempt for him because he's become everything I despise in a human being. But when I see him, I still want to believe that the little brother I used to know is somewhere in there and that maybe he just got lost somewhere along the way and that maybe one day he'll realize the reality of his situation: Why he has so few friends, why virtually everyone in the family dislikes him to some degree, why NO ONE wants to live with him, etc..

And I guess, sometimes, I feel like I failed somewhere which might be influencing my feelings toward him. Sometimes I wonder if I failed as an older brother and didn't guide him enough or didn't show him enough things or did any of the things that older brothers are supposed to do and maybe that's why he is the way he is. I don't know

The problem is now is that I can't help him, if he even needs some kind of help. I have this mountain of anger that only an ISFJ could understand toward him that clouds and contaminates everything I say and do toward him. I WANT to believe that he can be a better person than he is now but I've become so jaded toward him that I've decided the only way he's going to change is when the day comes that all the crap he's done comes back to bite him in the backside.

It's also why I avoid him: Because all of this anger and guilt and rage that I feel toward him is something I don't like about myself. It's something I'm not proud of. I hate that there's a person out there that can bring out so many negative qualities in me.

So for my sake, I try to avoid him as much as possible. He leaves me alone, I leave him alone, and that seems to work out best.

I apologize if some of that seemed convoluted but I suppose I have a hard time rational expressing years and years and bile and venom toward an individual. Particularly someone whom I wish wasn't the way he was.

 

[incubustribute]

ISFJ's don't really hate anyone, but it is possible that we may grow tired of the people we see all the time and become annoyed with them. Our main judgment function dictates that we must get along with others and avoid unwanted confrontations

 

[v-in-tx]

Have any of you ISFJ ever experienced hatred or extreme annoyance at an individual? I mean someone close to you like a relative or someone you have to live with. Did you pretend everything was fine, or your attitude made it obvious? What was it like?

would you mind calling my husband and asking him how we can change this particular "hater" attitude? it gets old that he holds things against people and then alienates himself from them in order to "not have to deal with them and get pissed off all the time".

what is it that doesn't allow him (and perhaps all ISFJ's, but i'd rather not generalize) to just "let stuff go"? i mean is it really THAT important that you have to hold onto it for so long?

how do you prevent an ISFJ from becoming a complete hermit? my husband used to be fun and he would like hanging out with me out of the house, but now all of our date nights involve dinner and a movie in.

once you've pissed an ISFJ to the point where they start to be spiteful and begin to be extremely unappreciative and grateful of what is in their world... how do you change that mentality to a positive? How do you get them back on track? i read somewhere that when there is only black and white, or up or down, or wrong or right with an ISFJ... and i can completely respect that, but how the hell do you explain to an ISFJ that there are way more colors in the rainbow than they are seeing?

 

[Snow Turtle]

would you mind calling my husband and asking him how we can change this particular "hater" attitude? it gets old that he holds things against people and then alienates himself from them in order to "not have to deal with them and get pissed off all the time".

what is it that doesn't allow him (and perhaps all ISFJ's, but i'd rather not generalize) to just "let stuff go"? i mean is it really THAT important that you have to hold onto it for so long?

how do you prevent an ISFJ from becoming a complete hermit? my husband used to be fun and he would like hanging out with me out of the house, but now all of our date nights involve dinner and a movie in.

once you've pissed an ISFJ to the point where they start to be spiteful and begin to be extremely unappreciative and grateful of what is in their world... how do you change that mentality to a positive? How do you get them back on track? i read somewhere that when there is only black and white, or up or down, or wrong or right with an ISFJ... and i can completely respect that, but how the hell do you explain to an ISFJ that there are way more colors in the rainbow than they are seeing?

I don't really hold grudges against people, but the times I do, I'll be bothered by it until the situation gets resolved. To be honest, I don't really forget things especially if it had a massive impact on me or the other person. It's for this reason that ISFJs can also be insanely harsh on themselves, never letting themselves escape from a mistake they made a long long time ago. This is where the pessimistic attitude of an SJ can be derived from, their past experiences always plays a factor in shaping their present experiences so until it is resolved in that they truly forgive themselves/the other person or that new experience shows otherwise, it'll always be there.

Which is why it's insanely important to resolve issues with an ISFJ. There are many that engage in passive-aggressive behaviour, that will tell you that there's nothing wrong, because even though they are upset, there is also the need to maintain harmony. It's just that this approach doesn't work so well, and a truly mature individual will express themselves and try resolve the issue, rather than put it in the backburner to explode in the future (a criticism of ISFJs).

Even when the issues are resolved. The ISFJ will remember it as a time that they were hurt, but will also be aware that it was resolved. They won't bear a grudge from the past since it's effects no longer have an impact. It's just something in the past that occured. Point is, it's not something that will be forgotten, but it needn't have an impact on the future. These things won't be used against you.

If they are, then I would say they haven't fully resolved the issue.

As for whether resolved issues can ever be used as a spite tactic, I've no idea, but it seems silly though because then an ISFJ would have to acknowledge that it's a past non-issue but bring it up. It seems like more a hurt tactic: You used to be a horrible person! Is that meant to hurt? It'd only hurt if someone hasn't forgiven their past. I'm inclined to think we don't use past information like this, but I could be wrong.

 

[v-in-tx]

I don't really hold grudges against people, but the times I do, I'll be bothered by it until the situation gets resolved. To be honest, I don't really forget things especially if it had a massive impact on me or the other person. It's for this reason that ISFJs can also be insanely harsh on themselves, never letting themselves escape from a mistake they made a long long time ago. This is where the pessimistic attitude of an SJ can be derived from, their past experiences always plays a factor in shaping their present experiences so until it is resolved in that they truly forgive themselves/the other person or that new experience shows otherwise, it'll always be there.

Which is why it's insanely important to resolve issues with an ISFJ. There are many that engage in passive-aggressive behaviour, that will tell you that there's nothing wrong, because even though they are upset, there is also the need to maintain harmony. It's just that this approach doesn't work so well, and a truly mature individual will express themselves and try resolve the issue, rather than put it in the backburner to explode in the future (a criticism of ISFJs).

Even when the issues are resolved. The ISFJ will remember it as a time that they were hurt, but will also be aware that it was resolved. They won't bear a grudge from the past since it's effects no longer have an impact. It's just something in the past that occured. Point is, it's not something that will be forgotten, but it needn't have an impact on the future. These things won't be used against you.

If they are, then I would say they haven't fully resolved the issue.

As for whether resolved issues can ever be used as a spite tactic, I've no idea, but it seems silly though because then an ISFJ would have to acknowledge that it's a past non-issue but bring it up. It seems like more a hurt tactic: You used to be a horrible person! Is that meant to hurt? It'd only hurt if someone hasn't forgiven their past. I'm inclined to think we don't use past information like this, but I could be wrong.

thanks. that does give me some perspective on things. i guess he'll just go on with the spiteful attitude, b/c the individuals who he's having the "battle" with will not talk to him like a normal human being to resolve the issues he's having with them.

now to ask him to just let it go... that's impossible, right?

 

[Snow Turtle]

thanks. that does give me some perspective on things. i guess he'll just go on with the spiteful attitude, b/c the individuals who he's having the "battle" with will not talk to him like a normal human being to resolve the issues he's having with them.

now to ask him to just let it go... that's impossible, right?

It's possible. You can always forgive and let go, even if the other person doesn't want to create peace. It's just a matter of whether he wants to and whether you can convience him to do so. The benefits of forgiving and trying to mend things, even if the other person isn't willing to engage anymore.

Grudges after all create hatred within an individual and that's never a pleasent feeling. Tinker has expressed the fact that he doesn't like feeling those emotions, and it's the same case for me. I honestly don't like being annoyed at people. I get annoyed at myself when I get annoyed with others, since I'm naturally inclined towards wanting peaceful friendships/relations.

 

[FeatheredFrenzy]

The problem is now is that I can't help him, if he even needs some kind of help. I have this mountain of anger that only an ISFJ could understand toward him that clouds and contaminates everything I say and do toward him. I WANT to believe that he can be a better person than he is now but I've become so jaded toward him that I've decided the only way he's going to change is when the day comes that all the crap he's done comes back to bite him in the backside.

It's also why I avoid him: Because all of this anger and guilt and rage that I feel toward him is something I don't like about myself. It's something I'm not proud of. I hate that there's a person out there that can bring out so many negative qualities in me.

So for my sake, I try to avoid him as much as possible. He leaves me alone, I leave him alone, and that seems to work out best.

Your anger towards your brother is immense, but it's understandable, as it merely reflects the amount of hardship that he has put you through. I don't believe this anger is a stain on your character. I think you were doing what a sibling does - feeling attached to him, invested in him, and responsible for him. Then he took this sharp turn into recklessness and because of your bond, you were pulled in with him.

I'm reluctant and almost afraid to truly imagine what it's like to support a younger sibling through addiction only to have him throw it back in my face by continuing to make a horrible mess of things. I don't have first-hand experience with what you've been through. But I do know what it is to feel like my love for a person went to waste. When a person is that selfish, it's like pouring your love for them into a black hole. You wonder where all of the love you gave went and why it seemingly had no affect on them. Love is powerful and transcendent. And yet it is sometimes laid to waste by a person like everything else in their path.

I've had to resort to avoiding certain loved ones as well. Where I once felt responsible towards them, I now feel that my responsibility is to remain detached from them as much as possible. Whether or not I'm able to truly pull that off, I find that if I can fake it, it'll be enough to keep them away so that I can establish safe distance.

 

[Hecuba]

Yes, and unfortunately this is due to my overprotective nature and nine of out ten times I end up hating someone I perceive as a threat to someone I care for; especially friends. I had developed so many hatreds against people simply because I feared them hurting or leading a friend astray. It's a double-edged sword.

 

[Dudesowin]

There is no such thing as a drug problem it starts way long before they ever take their first hit. His body needs more Dopamine.

Vitamin B6 supplements, L-Phenylalanine, Tyrosine, Melatonin.
Go to sleep before 10pm get at least 8 hours of sleep.

This is why most military is bullshit they directly act to affect neural chemistry and damage any good soldiers they come across. 5minutes to eat and 5 hours to sleep when such acts can easily go in tandem with any situation. I mean hell I'll pick up damn near anything and cram in my mouth if I'm hungry enough. Why not try teaching proper sleep techniques like hypnosis or meditation? And don't even ask what is in those food rations, the flatulence is legendary with so many metabolic problems. Masochism at its worse.

 

[amazonian]

I've only really ever been truly mad at one person: my older sister. She is an ESTJ, and literally the only person at whom I will snap. I pretended everything was fine for 13 years. Now, she knows if she annoys me at all, because I react rather quickly. But for anyone else, I always pretend everything is fine.