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Thread: ISFJ hatred

  1. #11
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLessard View Post
    What a different perspective from us, NFs. I expect very little from my close ones since I know them well and have been disappointed numerous times. I will expect more from people I idealize and potential soul companions, only to be also disappointed later on. Human beings are flawed, and misunderstandings aflow. Thank God for psychology. At least there's a tool to sort this stuff out a bit.
    That's rather interesting if it truly is a difference. For me, I know that people are extremely prone to making mistake in the first place. So with strangers, I place little faith in them not potentially screwing me over by accident/intentionally. It doesn't bother me much because I'm not invested in the person.

    However as I grow to know someone, I start to grow expectations in the sense that this is someone I'm willing to invest my heart in. It's basically the quote "Love is being vunerable and hoping that the other person won't trash your heart". While I'll be much more lenient with friends and family, should they screw up, I have higher expectations in the fact that they should stay true to their words etc. When they don't stay true to their words, I'm much more disappointed depending on whether the reason is justified.

    Then again this is just my views. May be different for other ISFJs.

    It reminds me when I thought an INFP friend would stick up for someone she didn't like, out of principle that she wasn't hypocritical when she wanted people to stick up for her. When she didn't do it, I just thought to myself... Oh... I misjudged her character. It bothered me since my views of her were kinda shattered. It didn't make sense since she was so passionate about treating people fairly.

  2. #12
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLessard View Post
    Sure helps.

    She is relieved to see her die, but there is a lot of loneliness in her life and caring for that annoying woman who loved her in an unhealthy way still made her feel useful and important. She also fears her ISTJ brother's judgment about her lack of compassion, and he is the most important person in her life. It's an overwhelming feeling of sudden loneliness and also fear for her future, because she know her life will soon change drastically because if this death.
    So we have an ISFJ who....

    - loves to take care of mean and annoying people.
    - feels useless and unimportant unless she's taking care of mean and annoying people
    - despite the fact that she takes care of annoying people, her brother thinks she's not compassionate, and he is the most important person in her life.
    -feel so lonely and scared that she will do anything to please these people.



    I really don't think it goes down exactly like that.

    ISFJs don't fall in love with people and break their neck to take of others because they mistreat/neglect them. That is a FANTASY that others project onto ISFJs, so it would make for a good fiction I guess. *shrug*

  3. #13
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    That's rather interesting if it truly is a difference. For me, I know that people are extremely prone to making mistake in the first place. So with strangers, I place little faith in them not potentially screwing me over by accident/intentionally. It doesn't bother me much because I'm not invested in the person.

    However as I grow to know someone, I start to grow expectations in the sense that this is someone I'm willing to invest my heart in. It's basically the quote "Love is being vunerable and hoping that the other person won't trash your heart". While I'll be much more lenient with friends and family, should they screw up, I have higher expectations in the fact that they should stay true to their words etc. When they don't stay true to their words, I'm much more disappointed depending on whether the reason is justified.

    Then again this is just my views. May be different for other ISFJs.

    It reminds me when I thought an INFP friend would stick up for someone she didn't like, out of principle that she wasn't hypocritical when she wanted people to stick up for her. When she didn't do it, I just thought to myself... Oh... I misjudged her character. It bothered me since my views of her were kinda shattered. It didn't make sense since she was so passionate about treating people fairly.
    I invest more emotion into potential soul companions that I might not know so well than family or close ones. That's idealistic wishful thinking, I guess.
    ENFPs are the worst for this. I have seen many being very uncaring for their families.
    I do honour my obligations towards my family as an INFJ, even though my ESTJ mother has often scolded me for not caring enough.

    That's interesting about the INFP. Perhaps she disagreed strongly about that person's values? I know I would never stick up for a person I disagree with morally.

  4. #14
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    So we have an ISFJ who....

    - loves to take care of mean and annoying people.
    - feels useless and unimportant unless she's taking care of mean and annoying people
    - despite the fact that she takes care of annoying people, her brother thinks she's not compassionate, and he is the most important person in her life.
    -feel so lonely and scared that she will do anything to please these people.



    I really don't think it goes down exactly like that.

    ISFJs don't fall in love with people and break their neck to take of others because they mistreat/neglect them. That is a FANTASY that others project onto ISFJs, so it would make for a good fiction I guess. *shrug*
    No, I didn't mean that.

    -She doesn't love her stepmother. Never has. Her brother knows it.
    -She has no choice but to care for the dying woman when she gets sick. NOT her choice.
    -She does it for her brother and out of duty.

    It is more like you said before:
    a) the ISFJ takes care of someone out of duty but not love. this will be the case when the person the ISFJ is taking care of is a dispicable person and the ISFJ does not love him/her but feels obligated to care for them. When that person dies or goes away, ISFJ will NOT miss taking care of that person, even if they grieve their departure. Sorry to say that but that's is the reality of the situation.

    It is the sudden loneliness, and her brother's judgment that bother her. Her routine changing, and insecurity about what comes next.

    I might be wrong about her feeling suddenly useless. How would you feel, Giggly? I respect your input.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLessard View Post
    That's interesting about the INFP. Perhaps she disagreed strongly about that person's values? I know I would never stick up for a person I disagree with morally.
    She didn't like him that much and didn't want him to live with us because of his character: Dark humour and violent tendancies. In that sense it was clear that she didn't like him on that level.

    I don't know. For me, even if you don't like someone. You shouldn't let your feelings get in the way when it comes to having fair treatments, I figured she would at least defend the persons right to live with us, even though she personally didn't like the idea of him living with us. Anyhow derailing... =o

    Anyhow I just want to clarify on this expectation trait. It might seem like I have a tremendous amount of expectations for my friends but that's not the truth. I have a few expectations, but those few expectations I value alot in other people. Things like being honest so that you won't backstab me, being kind towards others and stuff like that.

    It works the other way around. I have extremely high expectations of myself to stay loyal to people, so in a sense I expect close ones to stay true to their words as well. If I'm placing my trust in you, and you break it, it's extremely hard for me to give you it again.

  6. #16
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    She didn't like him that much and didn't want him to live with us because of his character: Dark humour and violent tendancies. In that sense it was clear that she didn't like him on that level.

    I don't know. For me, even if you don't like someone. You shouldn't let your feelings get in the way when it comes to having fair treatments, I figured she would at least defend the persons right to live with us, even though she personally didn't like the idea of him living with us. Anyhow derailing... =o

    I have a fair amount of hatred for people that are disrespectful and all that, usually in manifests in the form of putting down the person intellectually, like chavs etc.

    She clearly disagreed with his sense of morality. I would have done the same. Its an INF "doorslam." It's a question of moral integrity. Truth and righteousness are highly important to NFs. Dubious morality will have the NF despise you.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLessard View Post
    She clearly disagreed with his sense of morality. I would have done the same. Its an INF "doorslam." It's a question of moral integrity. Truth and righteousness are highly important to NFs. Dubious morality will have the NF despise you.
    That I can understand. But having moral intergrity would mean that she's fair to all party members regardless of her feelings/judgement on another aspect of his personality. I was disappointed because she was essentially being hypocritical by ignoring another important value to her.

    An example:

    You dislike bullying.
    You dislike another person for his violence.
    Therefore is it OK if you don't defend him when he's being bullied. Has he suddenly lost all his human rights?

    That's what I saw going on. I thought she would defend him regardless of her dislike for him.

  8. #18
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    That I can understand. But having moral intergrity would mean that she's fair to all party members regardless of her feelings/judgement on another aspect of his personality. I was disappointed because she was essentially being hypocritical by ignoring another important value to her.

    An example:

    You dislike bullying.
    You dislike another person for his violence.
    Therefore is it OK if you don't defend him when he's being bullied. Has he suddenly lost all his human rights?

    That's what I saw going on. I thought she would defend him regardless of her dislike for him.

    Was he being bullied? I suppose I don't know enough about the situation...
    What is the bullying thing about, exactly?

    Caring for everyone equally is more SJ than NF. We won't stand up for someone who is reproachable. We may even feel that if he is mean and is suffering because of his actions, it is justice. He is reaping.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLessard View Post
    Was he being bullied? I suppose I don't know enough about the situation...
    What is the bullying thing about, exactly?

    Caring for everyone equally is more SJ than NF. We won't stand up for someone who is reproachable. We may even feel that if he is mean and is suffering because of his actions, it is justice. He is reaping.
    Oh. The bullying thing is just a point I was trying to make. It's not actually relevant to real life.

    Karma huh... Poetic Justice. I can't really say I'm a fan of retributive justice. Even if I hate someone so much. I'll defend him because it's the right thing to do morally in my eyes. =D

  10. #20
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Oh. The bullying thing is just a point I was trying to make. It's not actually relevant to real life.

    Karma huh... Poetic Justice. I can't really say I'm a fan of retributive justice. Even if I hate someone so much. I'll defend him because it's the right thing to do morally in my eyes. =D
    You stand up for the sinner? I'm sorry, I can't agree with that. I stand up for the innocent and the needy. I will only stand up for the sinner if he repents.
    I won't punish the sinner myself, but if I see that person get in trouble, I do see that it's catching up on him. It is healthy for that person's conscience to have this happen.
    Although being a protestant, I believe in grace very much.
    But it isn't healthy to stand up for an arrogant sinner who doesn't admit his mistakes. You're not helping him.

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