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  1. #1
    Senior Member FallaciaSonata's Avatar
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    Default SJs, Nature vs. Nurture

    Greetings.


    I read somewhere that "most children are probably born as SJs, and then alter as they age". This seems to be just another wild hypothesis, but I entertained the thought nonetheless.

    Let's say that children are indeed born with a default of 50/50 on the I/E scale, a preference for S, default of 50/50 on T/F scale, and a preference for J. I'll be the first to point out that since the senses and motor skills are developing that babies would obviously seem to be favoring the "S", but that doesn't mean nothing is happening cognitively. Also, some babies (myself included) preferred a schedule for feeding/sleeping and went on a cycle, whereas some do not.

    Anyway, let's say that Nature puts them at that preset default level of "personality". Temperament, as some say. This says that everything else must be affected by Nurture, and I would like to know:

    As an SJ, how much of your personality do you think was affected externally, and how much of it were you simply born with, due to genetics?

    There is a lot of data out there that I am too lazy to compile that suggests that genetics make up about 60% of one's temperament/personality. I tend to agree with that, seeing how the older I get, the more I'm told I have my grandfather's mannerisms. (He is deceased, so I highly doubt that I am doing the unconscious "monkey see, monkey do" thing.)

    I will attempt to briefly break down some of the facets of my own personality, in attempt to get my meaning across.

    1. Introversion
    I tend to think that I was born this way. As a child, I was given frequent attention (source: mother) and almost never left alone. However, I am told I would (on an every day basis) play alone in my bedroom for hours on end, building something or working on something (I was a lego maniac). When I learned how to read, I began doing a lot of that, as well.

    I personally tend to think that someone's level of I/E is at least 90% genetic. I read an interesting theory that our brains are hard-wired to need a certain amount of external stimulation, and that introverted brains require significantly less and do not like over-stimulation. The opposite applies as well.

    2. Sensing
    I've been studying Piaget's theory of cognitive development and how some people can "get stuck" at concrete operation, or rather, being only able to work with 'reals'. A while ago, I thought I could have been an INTJ, and then more correctly figured out that I'm just using a great deal of Ne.

    Now I have an idea that perhaps, rather than using the letters or functions, I'm simply using more of what Piaget called the formal operation, or rather, being able to work with abstracts and imaginary things. The format in which I work with these abstracts would be Ne.

    3. Thinking
    This one, for me at least, is pretty easy to figure out. However, I tend to think that this is mostly Nurture, for me. Both of my parents favor T, and I spend a great deal of time with them. My mom is still emotional, as are most women, but she is significantly less emotional than other women her age, I've noticed. My dad, well, he's just incredibly smart.

    Another note I'll add is the Te "putting in order" thing. My mom is the professional neat-freak and has to have everything in its place, and so am I. I hypothesize that I "get this from her". (Both genetically and from observation.)

    4. Judging
    Preference for using Te is slightly higher on my cognitive functions test score, just above (and just a hair above) the Si score. I would even go as far as to say that I use TeSiNeFi, but I'm an introvert. So....I'm an introvert that is built like an ESTJ then? Who knows.

    All I can say is my dad and sister do not share the same inclinations that my mother and I do, as far as order/cleanliness/conventional way of doing things goes.



    So, what do you think? Comments, questions, concerns, opinions?

    Always remember to flank your enemies. History won't remember how dramatic your failed frontal assault looked. - Dragon Age: Origins

  2. #2
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Interesting piece. I'd agree with you about E/I being genetic, and there is at least some proof to back it up, see this little story here

    Rare syndrome points to sociability gene - health - 25 February 2009 - New Scientist

    You also said 50/50 on the T/F scale. Do you know that most men are T and the majority of women F types? I suspect that here we have nurture reinforcing nature. Men are expected to think in a particular (because they often do so by genetics) and they are incouraged to do so by upbringing, as it is manly. Similar for women. I have no proof of this supposition, however.

  3. #3
    Senior Member wrldisquiethere's Avatar
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    I don't have a whole lot to say, but here's something:

    I was born into a family of introverts. My dad and mom were both introverted, as well as one of my sisters. I think I showed a lot of introverted characteristics as a child and teenager. It was only as I got older and began to create a life of my own that I realized I thrive on social interaction. I see now that the same thing happened with my sister--she is an extroverted that lived like an introvert until she got out on her own. While I believe I am an extroverted person who is energized by being with people, I also see that I may be more reserved and quiet than a lot of stereotypical extroverts.
    Si, Fe equal Fi & Ti

    "I had a bag of Fritos, they were Texas grilled Fritos. These Fritos had grill marks on them. They remind me of summer, when we used to fire up the barbeque and throw down some Fritos. I can still see my dad with the apron on. Better flip that Frito, dad, you know how I like it." -Mitch Hedberg

  4. #4
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Good topic, OP.

    For me:

    1. Introversion
    During childhood, I was just the opposite of introverted. Then around age 10, I completely molded into the ISTJ type. But come to think of it, I believe my introversion was from Nature. Of course there's the well-recognized idea that introverts' brains are different from extroverts'. An introvert processes outside information much slower, while an extrovert does it faster.

    2. Sensing
    This was from Nature for me. My parents are both Ns, and I could never get used to that way of thinking and internalizing information. From a young age I was known for my amazing ability to recall precise facts, dates, and details. So much so that if someone needed to know what happened on a certain day or when a certain event happened, they would just ask me and I would tell them accurately. I've had this trait since I was a little kid, though it actually grew stronger as I went into double digits (age).

    3. Thinking
    Hmm... I think this for me was half Nature, half Nurture. When I was younger, I didn't really consider the feelings of others (then again I didn't really use my head when making decisions). However, when I got older, I learned that for me, using my head was the way to go (probably the development of Te). I didn't really have 'feelings' per se, nor did I understand them very well. I guess now that I look at it, it too is mostly Nature. The only Nurture part came in when people encouraged me to look at things analytically.

    4. Judging
    This is mostly Nurture. Both my parents encouraging me to go the ways of Judging, and of course school did the same. When I was a little kid (before age 10), I acted like a certain P. Then I began to get a little discipline (because I was taught that way), got a little more responsibility, and I never got involved with the wrong crowd thankfully.

  5. #5
    Senior Member FallaciaSonata's Avatar
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    Very interesting. Thank you for the comments.

    Always remember to flank your enemies. History won't remember how dramatic your failed frontal assault looked. - Dragon Age: Origins

  6. #6
    Senior Member wrldisquiethere's Avatar
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    I also believe my sensing is nature. I believe I'm the only xSxx out of Mom, Dad, me, and the two sisters who were around when I was growing up.
    Si, Fe equal Fi & Ti

    "I had a bag of Fritos, they were Texas grilled Fritos. These Fritos had grill marks on them. They remind me of summer, when we used to fire up the barbeque and throw down some Fritos. I can still see my dad with the apron on. Better flip that Frito, dad, you know how I like it." -Mitch Hedberg

  7. #7
    Senior Member SubjectA's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure I was a P when I was little. I remember that I always explored and I always wanted to know more. I was also not too shy around other people, especially if I had a strong opinion. And I suspect that I was an N, because I was always in my own head or playing games that required a lot of imagination. As for the T/F difference, I'm not too sure, but I'll default to T.

    So I'm thinking I was an ENTP.

    Though it's hard to say if this was nature or nurture. I'm thinking my N was probably nature, since both of my parents were S's. I'm only speculating.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  8. #8
    Perfect Gentleman! =D d@v3's Avatar
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    I was definitely a lot more extraverted when I was younger.
    Freedom Isn't Free. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #9
    Senior Member forzen's Avatar
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    I believe S and N is nature, but you could make a logical assumption that everyone are born an S and due to the lack of interesting stimulation in their surrounding, they turned to their imagination for entertainment. This explanation could also carry over to any activities. Furthermore, the human brain develops very early, human interactions with a child between the age the child was born to maybe 3 years old could determined if a child favors human interactions or not (E or I). Perhaps if the parents were attentive to the child's need they will enjoy interacting with people because the child would become accustom to it (aka spoiling) or if the child is taugh that he or she can't always get what they want, they will be less sociable due to being accustom to less stimulus socially.

    This really all boils down to the reward center of our brain, the limbic system. A child being showered with attention and loving will be more likely to enjoy interacting with people, because dopamine would react to the feeling of attention. In contrast, a child that had parents who doesn't interact with said child will more likely evolve into someone who is less sociable and seek inanimate object as a stimulation. Also, just like any language, reading human body language is develop in the early stage of a child's life cycle. A person not equip with the ability to read body language would be less likely to enjoy interacting with people, therefore will not enjoy activate the reward system of the brain. Explanation to extrovert thinking could based on if they have extrovert/introvert thinking influences (parents or family members) in the early stages of their childhood. A result of the inability to read body language, a child could develop to either assume a person's behavior or look at the facts at hand, thus becoming a S or a N. This could extend to all of that child's activities.

    So the main factor is the reward system being a major part of the development of your personality. I will also add, that self control is almost none existant to a child so they would give in to the reward system more. This extend to the notion that if it feels good, nature dictates to continue doing it since it must be good for survial. That's why our mouth water when smelling something good or why sex feels good. Again, when the limbic system is stimulated, we tend to repeat the process of whatever stimulating it and as a result become successful at what ever it was, and we all know that success builds upon itself. That's why we hear the saying, "do what you want and success will follow."
    This post grammatical errors had been intentionally left uncorrected.

  10. #10
    movin melodies kiddykat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forzen View Post
    I believe S and N is nature, but you could make a logical assumption that everyone are born an S and due to the lack of interesting stimulation in their surrounding, they turned to their imagination for entertainment. This explanation could also carry over to any activities. Furthermore, the human brain develops very early, human interactions with a child between the age the child was born to maybe 3 years old could determined if a child favors human interactions or not (E or I). Perhaps if the parents were attentive to the child's need they will enjoy interacting with people because the child would become accustom to it (aka spoiling) or if the child is taugh that he or she can't always get what they want, they will be less sociable due to being accustom to less stimulus socially.

    This really all boils down to the reward center of our brain, the limbic system. A child being showered with attention and loving will be more likely to enjoy interacting with people, because dopamine would react to the feeling of attention. In contrast, a child that had parents who doesn't interact with said child will more likely evolve into someone who is less sociable and seek inanimate object as a stimulation. Also, just like any language, reading human body language is develop in the early stage of a child's life cycle. A person not equip with the ability to read body language would be less likely to enjoy interacting with people, therefore will not enjoy activate the reward system of the brain. Explanation to extrovert thinking could based on if they have extrovert/introvert thinking influences (parents or family members) in the early stages of their childhood. A result of the inability to read body language, a child could develop to either assume a person's behavior or look at the facts at hand, thus becoming a S or a N. This could extend to all of that child's activities.

    So the main factor is the reward system being a major part of the development of your personality. I will also add, that self control is almost none existant to a child so they would give in to the reward system more. This extend to if it feels good, nature dictates to continue doing it since it must be good for survial. That's why our mouth water when smelling something good or why sex feels good. Again, when the limbic system is stimulated, we tend to repeat the process of whatever stimulating it and as a result become successful at what ever were doing, and we all know that success builds upon itself. That's why we hear the saying, "do what you want and success will follow."
    Wow. Succinct!

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