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  1. #1
    Junior Member Noamdofthehills's Avatar
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    Default ESFJ Group Parter- Help!

    I'm an applied ecology major (Wildlife Science), working on a group project for our capstone class, which is almost entirely based on theory. I got stuck with an ESFJ for a group project. How he got to his senior year in a Bachelor of Science program is beyond me, but this kid hasn't an objective bone in his body.

    My other partners are two ISTPs with well developed Ns, so we get along great, and they get along well with the ESFJ. However, I can't seem to NOT clash with him.

    Today what I thought was brainstorming- bouncing ideas off him while finding holes in both of our ideas- pissed him off. He told me that I was impossible to work with, and wasn't getting any work done because I wasn't writing anything down.

    This baffled me, as I thought we had covered a lot of ground in the 30 minutes of discussion; we determined what would NOT work. I saw no need to write down this information.

    So, if there are any ESFJs out there, how the hell do I not offend you, but still make sure you realize that your ideas are awful? (Not to say I don't have bad ideas, I want those to be purged as well! )

    To me, ideas are tangible objects, with no ownership. I don't get offended if someone destroys an idea I come up with, in fact, I am glad someone saw its flaws before anything literally tangible came out of it!

    Help please!

  2. #2
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Maybe he senses that you think he is incompentent .. afterall how he got into the senior year is beyond anyone's belief.

    The clash .. Ask him openly if he has a problem with the way you come across .. Don't ask, then you don't get.

    You wasn't writing anything down .. How dare you, lol .. You should of just told him it is not your way of doing things. He could of made notes. Possibly he thought that by you not taking notes, you were in a sense not taking any of the ideas seriously.

    Personally .. If there is a problem i speak up. If you offend me, i'll tell you.
    Your idea of an awful idea is subjective. Just try seeing it from his point of view, you may be able to extend it into something better.

    See, i am all for brainstorming and i love seeing flaws much to the annoyance of others but that is because i can flip the coin (so to speak) on everything/anything but if it is going to be done, then it should be done to the best of everyone's ability.

    Do you come across as a 'cocky know it all' .. Modesty is the key

    Good luck with that darling
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  3. #3
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noamdofthehills View Post
    I'm an applied ecology major (Wildlife Science), working on a group project for our capstone class, which is almost entirely based on theory. I got stuck with an ESFJ for a group project. How he got to his senior year in a Bachelor of Science program is beyond me, but this kid hasn't an objective bone in his body...
    And at the point I stopped paying attention. You sound like a condescending ass.

    The problem more than likely stems from your attitude of superiority.

    From my understanding of a brainstorming session, the point it not to shoot down ideas it's just to come up with as many as possible.

    Rule 1: Postpone and withhold your judgment of ideas
    Rule 2: Encourage wild and exaggerated ideas
    Rule 3: Quantity counts at this stage, not quality
    Rule 4: Build on the ideas put forward by others
    Rule 5: Every person and every idea has equal worth

    Source

    It's always easier to criticize someone else's ideas rather than come up with your own. You're stuck on the fact that he's so unobjective and too busy trying to belabor this person's ideas rather than pulling out any threads of feasibility or expound on any of them and the person is getting justifiably defensive.

    Just because the two other group members don't mind your assy ways doesn't make them right. I think a major attitude adjustment is necessary on your part.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  4. #4
    Senior Member wrldisquiethere's Avatar
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    Personally I get defensive when I feel that someone is insulting my intelligence. From the opening paragraph of your post you seem that you have already decided that this guy isn't worth listening to. I'm sure he picks up on that attitude and is reacting to it. His frustration with you not taking notes likely is more frustration from not feeling like you value his input at all. He's just as much a part of the team as you are, correct? My advice is to treat him with more respect and see if things go better.
    Si, Fe equal Fi & Ti

    "I had a bag of Fritos, they were Texas grilled Fritos. These Fritos had grill marks on them. They remind me of summer, when we used to fire up the barbeque and throw down some Fritos. I can still see my dad with the apron on. Better flip that Frito, dad, you know how I like it." -Mitch Hedberg

  5. #5
    Perfect Gentleman! =D d@v3's Avatar
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    It sounds like the ESFJ is trying to annoy you on purpose. He probably is objective, because after all, he is in his senior year! If you come off as annoying to him or if he senses you think he is incompetent, then he will annoy you even more (on purpose) just to get a rise out of you.

    By the way, I noticed you are in NY and studying wildlife science, are you a "stumpy"?
    Freedom Isn't Free. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #6
    Senior Member wrldisquiethere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d@v3 View Post
    It sounds like the ESFJ is trying to annoy you on purpose. He probably is objective, because after all, he is in his senior year! If you come off as annoying to him or if he senses you think he is incompetent, then he will annoy you even more (on purpose) just to get a rise out of you.

    By the way, I noticed you are in NY and studying wildlife science, are you a "stumpy"?
    What led you to this conclusion? I can't imagine ever wanting to annoy anyone on purpose. Are ESFJ's known for this?
    Si, Fe equal Fi & Ti

    "I had a bag of Fritos, they were Texas grilled Fritos. These Fritos had grill marks on them. They remind me of summer, when we used to fire up the barbeque and throw down some Fritos. I can still see my dad with the apron on. Better flip that Frito, dad, you know how I like it." -Mitch Hedberg

  7. #7
    Junior Member Noamdofthehills's Avatar
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    I'm sorry if I came off condescending to him, but I do know more about the subject than he does. Also, I have awful ideas as well. Everyone dopes. I wasn't trying to imply at all of his ideas are awful, just some, as some of mine are. I want him to tear apart my awful ideas with equal ruthlessness.

    He is not incompetent, but it took him a LOT of work to get to this position. He struggles with school, while I skip class and rarely study, only to beat him on tests- this pisses him off. However, his hardwork pays off, and he gets his shit done. To that, I give him the utmost respect.

    I will try to take his perspective into account. He hates the class (and major), so project is a chore. However, I love the class and major, so much that I plan on pursing graduate work in the subject. So, this project is a fun, mental challenge. Unfortunately, when I find something fascinating, my brain goes at warp speed. I'm going to try to slow down, and compromise.

  8. #8
    Junior Member Noamdofthehills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d@v3 View Post
    By the way, I noticed you are in NY and studying wildlife science, are you a "stumpy"?
    Yup.

  9. #9
    Perfect Gentleman! =D d@v3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrldisquiethere View Post
    What led you to this conclusion? I can't imagine ever wanting to annoy anyone on purpose. Are ESFJ's known for this?
    I think it's more of a guy thing, because there are guys similar to what he is describing around here in my school and its enough to drive me insane!
    Freedom Isn't Free. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #10
    Perfect Gentleman! =D d@v3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noamdofthehills View Post
    Yup.
    No way! I'm Orange. We could be talking about the same guy!
    Freedom Isn't Free. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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