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[ESFJ] ESFJ Group Parter- Help!

Noamdofthehills

New member
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
18
I'm an applied ecology major (Wildlife Science), working on a group project for our capstone class, which is almost entirely based on theory. I got stuck with an ESFJ for a group project. How he got to his senior year in a Bachelor of Science program is beyond me, but this kid hasn't an objective bone in his body.

My other partners are two ISTPs with well developed Ns, so we get along great, and they get along well with the ESFJ. However, I can't seem to NOT clash with him.

Today what I thought was brainstorming- bouncing ideas off him while finding holes in both of our ideas- pissed him off. He told me that I was impossible to work with, and wasn't getting any work done because I wasn't writing anything down.

This baffled me, as I thought we had covered a lot of ground in the 30 minutes of discussion; we determined what would NOT work. I saw no need to write down this information.

So, if there are any ESFJs out there, how the hell do I not offend you, but still make sure you realize that your ideas are awful? (Not to say I don't have bad ideas, I want those to be purged as well! )

To me, ideas are tangible objects, with no ownership. I don't get offended if someone destroys an idea I come up with, in fact, I am glad someone saw its flaws before anything literally tangible came out of it!

Help please!
 

Saslou

New member
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
4,910
MBTI Type
ESFJ
Maybe he senses that you think he is incompentent .. afterall how he got into the senior year is beyond anyone's belief. ;)

The clash .. Ask him openly if he has a problem with the way you come across .. Don't ask, then you don't get.

You wasn't writing anything down .. How dare you, lol .. You should of just told him it is not your way of doing things. He could of made notes. Possibly he thought that by you not taking notes, you were in a sense not taking any of the ideas seriously.

Personally .. If there is a problem i speak up. If you offend me, i'll tell you.
Your idea of an awful idea is subjective. Just try seeing it from his point of view, you may be able to extend it into something better.

See, i am all for brainstorming and i love seeing flaws much to the annoyance of others but that is because i can flip the coin (so to speak) on everything/anything but if it is going to be done, then it should be done to the best of everyone's ability.

Do you come across as a 'cocky know it all' .. Modesty is the key ;)

Good luck with that darling :D
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
5,514
Enneagram
1w2
I'm an applied ecology major (Wildlife Science), working on a group project for our capstone class, which is almost entirely based on theory. I got stuck with an ESFJ for a group project. How he got to his senior year in a Bachelor of Science program is beyond me, but this kid hasn't an objective bone in his body...

And at the point I stopped paying attention. You sound like a condescending ass.

The problem more than likely stems from your attitude of superiority.

From my understanding of a brainstorming session, the point it not to shoot down ideas it's just to come up with as many as possible.

Rule 1: Postpone and withhold your judgment of ideas
Rule 2: Encourage wild and exaggerated ideas
Rule 3: Quantity counts at this stage, not quality
Rule 4: Build on the ideas put forward by others
Rule 5: Every person and every idea has equal worth

Source

It's always easier to criticize someone else's ideas rather than come up with your own. You're stuck on the fact that he's so unobjective and too busy trying to belabor this person's ideas rather than pulling out any threads of feasibility or expound on any of them and the person is getting justifiably defensive.

Just because the two other group members don't mind your assy ways doesn't make them right. I think a major attitude adjustment is necessary on your part.
 

wrldisquiethere

New member
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
233
MBTI Type
xSFJ
Enneagram
2w1
Personally I get defensive when I feel that someone is insulting my intelligence. From the opening paragraph of your post you seem that you have already decided that this guy isn't worth listening to. I'm sure he picks up on that attitude and is reacting to it. His frustration with you not taking notes likely is more frustration from not feeling like you value his input at all. He's just as much a part of the team as you are, correct? My advice is to treat him with more respect and see if things go better.
 

d@v3

Perfect Gentleman! =D
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
2,830
MBTI Type
ISTJ
It sounds like the ESFJ is trying to annoy you on purpose. He probably is objective, because after all, he is in his senior year! If you come off as annoying to him or if he senses you think he is incompetent, then he will annoy you even more (on purpose) just to get a rise out of you.

By the way, I noticed you are in NY and studying wildlife science, are you a "stumpy"? :huh:
 

wrldisquiethere

New member
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
233
MBTI Type
xSFJ
Enneagram
2w1
It sounds like the ESFJ is trying to annoy you on purpose. He probably is objective, because after all, he is in his senior year! If you come off as annoying to him or if he senses you think he is incompetent, then he will annoy you even more (on purpose) just to get a rise out of you.

By the way, I noticed you are in NY and studying wildlife science, are you a "stumpy"? :huh:

What led you to this conclusion? I can't imagine ever wanting to annoy anyone on purpose. Are ESFJ's known for this?
 

Noamdofthehills

New member
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
18
I'm sorry if I came off condescending to him, but I do know more about the subject than he does. Also, I have awful ideas as well. Everyone dopes. I wasn't trying to imply at all of his ideas are awful, just some, as some of mine are. I want him to tear apart my awful ideas with equal ruthlessness.

He is not incompetent, but it took him a LOT of work to get to this position. He struggles with school, while I skip class and rarely study, only to beat him on tests- this pisses him off. However, his hardwork pays off, and he gets his shit done. To that, I give him the utmost respect.

I will try to take his perspective into account. He hates the class (and major), so project is a chore. However, I love the class and major, so much that I plan on pursing graduate work in the subject. So, this project is a fun, mental challenge. Unfortunately, when I find something fascinating, my brain goes at warp speed. I'm going to try to slow down, and compromise.
 

d@v3

Perfect Gentleman! =D
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
2,830
MBTI Type
ISTJ
What led you to this conclusion? I can't imagine ever wanting to annoy anyone on purpose. Are ESFJ's known for this?

I think it's more of a guy thing, because there are guys similar to what he is describing around here in my school and its enough to drive me insane! :doh:
 

JustHer

Pumpernickel
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Messages
1,954
MBTI Type
ENTJ
It can take a great amount of effort for NT's and ESFJ's to get along (naturally, with 2 primary functions that oppose our own)

Some things I've learned:
- They take things a lot more personally than we do
- They can become insecure with lack of harmony in the group whereas for us that wouldn't be a big concern
- They often need to have a known structure to a project in order to feel like its succeeding (too much disorder can really worry a J)

I think the best thing you could do is to very clearly establish everything to them, like how you prefer to get the job done, what brainstorming methods work for each of you, what goals and deadlines you want to set, how much space you each need, and so on.

Even if the ESFJ doesn't understand your methods, they can at least feel like you'd both be doing your best to contribute to the common goal and have some set of established rules to follow. It gives them a sense of security that everything will succeed, and gives them the ability to think "hey he's doing this because thats how he is, not because there's an underlying emotional issue between us"
 
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