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  1. #21
    More human than human MetalWounds's Avatar
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    ESTJs just take life far too seriously. It's actually humorous to watch.
    I'm doing science and I'm still alive

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by JediM05 View Post
    I was wondering why some people think ESTJs are overly critical and have no imagination. For example, when I am correcting someone, I try to do it in as nice of a way as possible. Also, as far as imagination goes, I love movies such as Star Wars and Harry Potter, and enjoy reading those type books as well.

    (one thing that is correct that people think about is how ESTJs think and like to go into details. For example, I had to retype this whole thing just to eliminate the small details. And as you can see, this is beginning to go into small details as well, so i'll stop here. )

    Do many people just have a misunderstanding of ESTJs, or am I just abnormal? lol.
    My fiance is an ESTJ. He currently is working for the Fed. Gov. while prepping to attend law school. I would say that he does have creativity, but it's in very different areas than me, an SP.

    For instance, he is an awesome planner. He sets up his day like a tactical plan and executes it marvelously. He's also a bit of a hopeless romantic and is amazing at plotting sneaky romantic surprises and writing love letters. I've also been told (by people who would know) that he writes a mean legal brief.

    He tends to read non-fiction, however, and sees fiction as something that he should make himself read because he ought to. He's designated me as the one to tell him what he ought to read.

    He's also said that one of the things he likes about me is my artistic nature, which he doesn't see in himself.

    He does tend to be pretty uptight about formalities and appearances, and my casual attitude toward them tends to unnerve him. He is very kind and actually dislikes being confrontational so my bluntness is also difficult for him (not my bluntness with him so much as my bluntness with others).


    EDIT: I forgot to mention that his favorite television show of all time is The West Wing (he doesn't even agree with the politics of it, he just loves a show that is centered around bureaucracy and the political system).

    He also tends to be a perfectionist, with most of his criticism pointed squarely at himself. This can lead to depression when he's not getting the results that he wants, or when he's up against an impossible deadline he's set for himself, or just because of the fact that his expectations for himself are so unrealistically high that he doesn't realize everyone else won't care as much and will give him more slack than he allows himself.

  3. #23
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Now I found a good quotation about ESTJ's I do not get along with; it's a description of ESTJ with too little balance with auxiliary (perceptive) function. (Important part bolded even if it is not bolded in the original text.)

    Gifts differing: Understanding Personality Types (Isabel Briggs Mayers with Peter B Myers, Davies-Black Publishing, Mountain View, California 1995).
    p.86

    ”Extraverted thinkers construct a code of ruled embodying their basic judgments about the world. They aim to lie by those rules, and consider that other should as well. Any change in their ways requires a conscious change in the rules. If their perception is not good enough to show them, from time to time, how their rules should be broadened, the code will be so narrow and rigid that it becomes a tyranny not only to the thinkers but also to those around them, especially their families. Everything that conforms to the rules will be right; everything that violates them will be wrong; and everything not covered by them will be unimportant."

  4. #24
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JediM05 View Post
    I was wondering why some people think ESTJs are overly critical and have no imagination. For example, when I am correcting someone, I try to do it in as nice of a way as possible. Also, as far as imagination goes, I love movies such as Star Wars and Harry Potter, and enjoy reading those type books as well.

    (one thing that is correct that people think about is how ESTJs think and like to go into details. For example, I had to retype this whole thing just to eliminate the small details. And as you can see, this is beginning to go into small details as well, so i'll stop here. )

    Do many people just have a misunderstanding of ESTJs, or am I just abnormal? lol.
    The someone did not ask to be corrected.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    The someone did not ask to be corrected.
    Lock, stock and two smoking barrels.






  6. #26
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dane View Post
    Lock, stock and two smoking barrels.





    Thank you for the recommendation.
    I shall consider it.
    Immediately after I shall have recovered from the post traumatic stress induced by the previous movie thrill.
    The Fight Club.

  7. #27
    a white iris elfinchilde's Avatar
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    my former boss (just quit my job) was an ESTJ. he didn't give me a good impression of ESTJs.

    Overbearing, can't quite work with people (in the one year he took over, 3 out of 5 of us left the team), though he thinks he's open-minded and imaginative. :rolli: Kept telling me he was intelligent and open to ideas. :rolli:

    They do have their strengths: competitive, driven, great marshallers.

    But they need to work with people who obey. They get terrified of disobedience: everything must be right, and it must be 'their' way. Or else they get highly anxious, and try to impose control. Often harshly. They'd sit you down and talk for hours and hours pointing out your faults in a concerned tone.

    Objectively: blind spot is that they can't work with NPs--and they'd accuse the NPs of not being able to see other perspectives.

    Their blind spot is their perceived image of themselves, which may not tally with reality. The way to catch out an ESTJ is in the freudian slips they make when they panic--when things don't go their way.


    To be fair: This is probably an unbalanced ESTJ which i've had the (mis)fortune of working with. Got so bad at the end that he was practically making veiled threats (masked as concern) that he knows of my 'legacy' in the previous places i worked in, and would speak to my future employers about me. never mind the fact that i had open job offers from more than one of these employers already, and they have a bad impression of him. :rolli:

    Routine, conservatism, narrow-mindedness and regiment are poison to an INTP....

    prior apologies to all the balanced, nice ESTJs out here.
    You gave me hyacinths first a year ago;
    They called me the hyacinth girl.
    Yet when we came back, late, from the Hyacinth garden,
    Your arms full, and your hair wet, I could not
    Speak, and my eyes failed, I was neither
    Living nor dead, and I knew nothing,
    Looking into the heart of light, the silence.

    --T.S Eliot, The Wasteland

  8. #28
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Time for this thread to be revived!

    In response to the OP, I completely agree. We're more creative than most people give us credit for. Our creativity, I suppose, is more subtle and easier to miss, or at least focused in different areas. I also don't think we're quite that serious... maybe we just look serious because we tend to make friends with the silly crazy types. I know I spend a lot of my time with my friends simply shaking my head and laughing (specifically my ENFP friend and my INFJ friend)

    elfinchilde: Man, there must be a lot of unbalanced ESTJs out there. This forum is filled with ESTJ ex/parent/boss horror stories where they act like corrupt dictators. I suppose that's what happens to ESTJs when they have issues. I don't, really, in comparison to some, so I'm not like that. But still. It boggles the mind to imagine just how many scary people like that are out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Colors View Post
    I think ESTJs have very strong expectations of how things are/ should be, and only really notice/pay attention when things break out of those mental representations. I can also see this playing out in my ESTJ friend's friendships. She has friends she treats as younger siblings and friends she treats as wild/weird diversions (I'm in this group). I've wanted to break out of this "weird" distinction and create a more sharing friendship with her, but she's very uncomfortable with forging new limits for our friendship, and eventually I had to drop that hope.
    This quote really strikes me, because my friendships are a bit like this, too. I wonder if that's a type-related trait or not. And Colors: If your friend is like me, it isn't that she's scared of "forging new limits" on your friendship. It's that she's scared of opening up to you. By forming fairly shallow friendships, she doesn't have to deal with anyone's emotional outbursts, which makes everything easier and a lot more pleasant. But by going to that next level, she's probably going to have to talk about her feelings at some point, and it sucks to talk about your feelings when you have no patience for them (I know that when I get emotional, I get mad about it and think "Why am I doing this? This is completely unwarranted!" and try to get rid of it... usually failing).
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  9. #29
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    Can someone here please describe "others" in more complete detail? Thanks.

  10. #30
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    My younger sister is probably an ESTJ. The bad: I don't talk to her much, so I get along well enough with her, though we never have anything to talk about. We kind of see things in the same light, though. The rest of my family talks with her and spends more time with her, and they all say she comes off as rude and critical, even though she doesn't intend to be. They say she doesn't notice she's doing it. My family is all ST's and SJ's.

    The good: She is very supportive of the people she cares about. When you're feeling down, she'll be there for you, and does a great job of keeping your spirits up.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

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