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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JediM05 View Post
    For example, when I am correcting someone, I try to do it in as nice of a way as possible.
    Even if it is done "as nice as possible", unless you are correcting something like a math problem's wrong answer, this can still come up unfriendly. the other person will have built up a different set of information which, even if the end result isn't the most "correct" one, they will still have some information to offer or a way to get to that result that might involve an unusual method that is useful somewhere else.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Priam's Avatar
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    From my experience, the worst thing about an (unbalanced) ESTJ is the rigid inability to see special cases and grey areas in places already considered "figured out". Massive blindspots leading to anger, rigidity and bullheaded attempts to make the person or situation conform to how their definition of "the world" works.

    The person I'm modeling this on should not be taken as any balanced type of individual, however, and an unbalanced INTP has some extraordinarily distasteful behaviors as well. They're just different. And I admit the unhealthy ENTJ behaviors piss me off a little more than most others...
    "The subject chooses to sit in shadow and search for wisdom by reflecting upon his trial. The problem is not that he is cold and wet, but that cold and wet seems problematic, so he embraces those hardships in order to best them."

  3. #13
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Priam View Post
    From my experience, the worst thing about an (unbalanced) ESTJ is the rigid inability to see special cases and grey areas in places already considered "figured out". Massive blindspots leading to anger, rigidity and bullheaded attempts to make the person or situation conform to how their definition of "the world" works.
    yes, the control issue. That was *always* where I would butt up against them. I can't tell you how many times I said, "Yes, I know what you want, and what the ideal process should be... but here are the options you actually DO get... and you are KILLING yourself by not being realistic here. you need to ease up and accept the parameters you've been given."

    iow, the situation was gray; and in their desire for b/w, they were just hurting themselves and others by jamming the square pegs into the round holes over and over.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #14
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    I do think ESTJs have a fair imagination, or at least are generally interested in pursuits associated with imaginative figures; although I have yet to know one which is not critical. Being nice while being critical does not make one acritical: indeed the opposite of critical is complimentary, and if I have to judge the ESTJs I know on this scale they definitely fall on the critical side (which is a strenght in the fact that they are very thorough in their work, a weakness in the fact that they depress other people's motivation with criticalness)
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  5. #15
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Yes.. ESTJs always have to one-up you.

    This has been how we do things for 20 years:

    Me: *does something*
    My ESTJ best friend: It would have been better if it was done like this.
    Me: But that's how I did it..
    ESTJ with slight annoyance in tone of voice: No you didn't! You see.. this is how you do it.
    Me: Fine, you win. You know everything.
    ESTJ: *is happy*

    or

    Me: *makes declarative statement*
    ESTJ: No, because [something completely unrelated, but sounds good]
    Me: FORGET IT!

  6. #16
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana View Post
    Yes.. ESTJs always have to one-up you.

    This has been how we do things for 20 years:

    Me: *does something*
    My ESTJ best friend: It would have been better if it was done like this.
    Me: But that's how I did it..
    ESTJ with slight annoyance in tone of voice: No you didn't! You see.. this is how you do it.
    Me: Fine, you win. You know everything.
    ESTJ: *is happy*

    or

    Me: *makes declarative statement*
    ESTJ: No, because [something completely unrelated, but sounds good]
    Me: FORGET IT!
    Well, now imagine how an ENTJ would react if he was in your position, and then you have a picture of the typical interaction between me and an ESTj. Not something I'm proud of, honestly...
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  7. #17
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    With that situation I've had times where I'd think "bugger off and entertain yourself elsewhere!" while I end up really saying "fine, do it yourself!" then walking off.

    Edit: Actually, in more recent situations I've replied with "And?" then kept doing what I was doing. One of those situations resulted in my tormentor smiling and replying with "I like you".
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

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    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

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  8. #18
    Senior Member theshadow's Avatar
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    my reactions with estj's is uhmmm rough. I dont even react to estj's anymore I literrally just laugh at them.... and they HATE that :steam:. seriously... I do like them they just really, really dont like me. and now for laughs and giggles

    me: hey you, how are you
    estj: Im Find. why are you asking
    me: because I can and I like to talk to people
    estj: I dont like you
    me: hahahha cute
    estj:that wasnt funny
    me: now im roaring with laughter, your right, its wasn't, im just laughing at you
    estj: we are going to have a some problems
    Me: and?

    and I still to this day I have no problems with that girl.. who still hates me


    edit : I would like to add that she is very creative in her own way. its just not creative on my scale, she like to do the same things over and over. such as glitter

  9. #19
    don't fence me in sui generis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theshadow View Post
    seriously... I do like them they just really, really dont like me.
    Oh? Why's that?

    Quote Originally Posted by theshadow View Post
    I dont even react to estj's anymore I literrally just laugh at them.... and they HATE that
    Oh.

    Do you know anyone, of ANY type, who likes being laughed at apropos of nothing?



  10. #20
    Senior Member theshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnestic View Post
    Oh? Why's that?

    Do you know anyone, of ANY type, who likes being laughed at apropos of nothing?


    that was a bit of a rant against one specific estj. most of them are fine . this specific one however sees no reason to respect me, and doest like the fact that when she confronts me I have no problem standing up to her

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