[ESTJ] What do you think of ESTJs?

[Totenkindly]

What I've read is that the military tends to mold as xSTJ, also. I think FineLine found this to be the case. My father tests as a weak E, getting weaker as the years pass and he becomes more 'himself' - in the Military he was forced to be an extrovert (command officer).

I would guess the STJ "mold" if I had to choose without having read the thread first. On the field, you need people who are dependable/consistent, who can take orders immediately, and who are not prone to emotional displays or loss of control. You also need people who believe unquestionably (if possible) in the values of the institution. E/I are both useful in the military, though.

Stereotypical example:

Col. Jessep: Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

 

[Metamorphosis]

I would guess the STJ "mold" if I had to choose without having read the thread first. On the field, you need people who are dependable/consistent, who can take orders immediately, and who are not prone to emotional displays or loss of control. You also need people who believe unquestionably (if possible) in the values of the institution. E/I are both useful in the military, though.

Stereotypical example:

This makes sense. I think this idea is highly dependent on what a person's role in the military is, though.

 

[Sahara]

ESTJ's are cool, successful (the ones I know) and driven, this leads to a workaholic type situation with some of them, but you got to admire that kind of dedication.

Male ESTJ's are sexy but much as I like all that power in them, I don't think I would survive a long term pairing with one, my "head in the cloud attitude" might drive them insane lol

 

[proteanmix]

I would guess the STJ "mold" if I had to choose without having read the thread first. On the field, you need people who are dependable/consistent, who can take orders immediately, and who are not prone to emotional displays or loss of control. You also need people who believe unquestionably (if possible) in the values of the institution. E/I are both useful in the military, though.

Stereotypical example:

I thought that was pretty good.

 

[Lateralus]

(Healthy) ESTJs are fine, in small doses. Living with one is too much.

 

[Zergling]

I only know one, my dad. We get along well, better now that we're both older, though. I suspect he was an N before joining the military, however.

This seems to be the case with me also, now that I'm older and not under more direct control by my dad, it's much easier to get along with him.

 

[ladypinkington]

I view ESTJ's as going by objective decision making but not objective in perceiving things and others. I think that they are very goal oriented and expect everyone to have the same goals and are status seekers.

I think ESTJ's are hard workers and like following the rules and whatever they think is the best- they want everyone to have and they feel sorry for people if they don't have what they deem as "best". They usually have very yuppy taste. This is very frustrating if you have your own style and don't care what the trends are and what society deems as successful. I think ESTJ's demean people without even realizing it because they can't even see other people's perspectives that well at all. They tend to be very practical and look down on or are incredibly confused of those who are not.

I think ESTJ's are very responsible and feel a sense of duty and can take on the role of mother hen quite easily and tend to take charge. They do not think outside of the box as they depend on the tried and true methods. Female ESTJ's seem to be the bossiest women I have ever met. I think that they feel that, See I have measured up by these objective standards therefore I am the most qualified to lead and take charge and everyone should listen to me. They tend to have high ego's and high ambitions. I admire their drive and dependability.

ESTJ's (ISTJ's second) get me the least of any type. I seem to fail all their pre-requisites for a correctly lived life and they just do not understand me whatsoever.

There are good and bad things about all types- I think for me though-ESTJ's are just built to be my main conflict. There is actually a couple of ESTJ's that I get a long with well and are friends with but there are way more that are my worst enemies mostly because I feel constantly demeaned and belittled by them and am constantly irritated that they can't be more objective in their perceiving others and the world around them. Also I don't like to tell people what to do and I don't like to be told what to do so I don't like types that try to dominate me and also "take over."

ESTJ's I feel want everyone to be the same and I want everyone to be different. I think I am a threat to ESTJ's values. I think I am as frustrating to an ESTJ as they are to me. I don't think ESTJ's are bad people just that we are made to conflict with each other it seems and cannot help it. I don't think ESTJ's are even aware of themselves and as a nonconfrontational INFJ- I am not even going to bother telling them. Even if I did though I don't think they could help it- because it is simply the way we are made= our make up naturally butts heads.

 

[reason]

ESTJs are valiant allies in the war we must wage against all iNtuitards!

 

[hotmale]

ESTJs are valiant allies in the war we must wage against all iNtuitives!

I don't think my girlfriend would like that.

 

[Mendacity]

ESTJs are valiant allies in the war we must wage against all iNtuitards!

This sounds like something my ISTJ best friend would say. Except that he has enough T to realize that the N picks up where the S lacks and vice versa.
But that's off topic.

I have a female ESTJ friend and I have a lot of respect for her. She's intelligent, motivated, successful and capable.

However, she has trouble with any kind of abstract or critical thinking. She has a tendency to look at matters as they are on the surface without really taking the time to understand them. She can be snobby and elitist sometimes and tends to rush headlong into projects or plans without taking the time to think them through and decide if the project in question is really such a good idea.
But that motivation often leads her to accomplish things that I would just sit around and talk or think about doing. It's a good quality that can sometimes get her in trouble.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

The ESTJ that I know best is a respectable person, a good example, and he well combines the needs of people and his organization. So I like him. I'd praise him more, but I'm going to sleep right now..

 

[Lookin4theBestNU]

I've known a couple ESTJs really well and met many others. They are good as long as they have zero authority over me. My mother and I for example get along much better now. My rule bending and primary focus both has always been a source of friction to the ones I've known. Two EJs can get along together very well if they have the same ideas...if not the sparks will fly. They say NFs are not competitive but that's not always true. I love to give ESTJs a run for their money so to speak in organizing and being successful. I like it best when they have gotten comfortable in their jobs and used to being number one. ESTJs can intimidate me though as I haven't met a single one who could deal with anger well. I've seen a couple of ESTJ explosions which were not pretty. ISTJs and I get along exceptionally well, throw in the E and it's a different story. I guess my opinion on the type in general is rather neutral. I'm guessing at the very least it is mutually indifferent or negative from their pov.

 

[arcticangel02]

ESTJs can intimidate me though as I haven't met a single one who could deal with anger well. I've seen a couple of ESTJ explosions which were not pretty.

Actually, yeah, I've noticed that too. Normally amicable and friendly, but when they get angry they go boom! ^^ Like when my dad is frustrated, the whole house knows, because he'll shout something (usually at himself) then go off and vent in private. I think he's learned that he works through his frustration best when he's alone, and we've learned to avoid him when he's annoyed. But it doesn't usually last long until he can deal with us civilly again(whether or not he's still simmering is hard to tell).

 

[GirlAmerica]

There is a duality in the ESTJ I am soon to be free of. (divorce)

There is part of him that is the most amazing father and husband. He pitches in on housework, is always working on a project improving our home, teaching the kids really awesome things (football, baseball, riding their bikes etc). He is funny and a lot of fun in so many ways I cant imagine a better partner in life. He works hard, and will work as much over time (law enforcement) as they will give him/allow.

On the other hand....

He is only motivated if things are going good for him. If they arent he is a wreck, falling apart emotionally and physically. He will let his health go, he will be very negative.
He is a habitual cheater, though until this was discovered life was fairly good as he was able to balance the duality and I never knew a thing was happening....except for his seeming moody.
When this was discovered he became enraged and explosive with his temper as I was making provisions for him to moveout....after a couple of years of his working on the issue and failing miserably I found myself DONE with the situation.

Somehow, he can very easily sweep aside the past and wants to start over again and again........
Something I cannot do, as life to me is based on an entwined landscape. Not individual pieces as he perceives.

My grandpa was an ESTJ also.....he also seemed to do very similar things in his marriage. My grandmother was an ISFJ however, and it seems the period of time it occured in their lives and her being somewhat submissive lead it to occur continually over their marriage until they were older.

 

[Vicki]

My dad seems to fit ESTJ well. We get along o.k.

In general, though, the bad sides of an ESTJ tend to be more immediately obvious with direct effects on people than for most other types. The stereotypical bad side of an ESTJ is bossy, over involved in other people's business, hard to get rid of, hard to convince, and a general pain in the ass to people near them. Compare to a stereotypical bad ENTP, who might be annoyingly talky but can be avoided more easily, or a stereotypical bad INxP, who will procrastinate and not finish stuff, but won't be injecting themselves into other people's business, and are easier to keep away.

same here, my dad is an ESTJ.
when he's in a good mood I respect his opinions.

 

[Blackwater]

In my experience, ESTJs are actually somewhat comical.

I always compare them unfavorably to ENTJs: The local administrator versus the global administrator. Because I'm N-dominant and P, all else equal, I find it comical how ESTJs will look at a given problem within a very constricted frame of mind and then make up their minds based on various shorthand considerations. I wish they'd take a broader view of a given situation before acting. And its even worse with ESFJs.

 

[arcticangel02]

Another thing that just came to mind - the ESTJ I know has a fantastic memory for little bits of useless trivia. He remembers the casts of obscure TV shows from 20 years ago, the name of bands that had one hit and one hit only, and probably the album that hit was on, to boot. Given, his knowledge of more recent bands/shows is less complete, but just about anything that isn't entirely obscure from 10 or 20 years ago, he knows. It never fails to astonish me.

 

[wildcat]

My impression is that they're highly efficient and thorough people, who work very hard towards things, and can be a bit controlling, tending to micro-manage. I've never met one, though.

Mariankatu 1 Helsinki.

 

[hotmale]

In my experience, ESTJs are actually somewhat comical.

I always compare them unfavorably to ENTJs: The local administrator versus the global administrator. Because I'm N-dominant and P, all else equal, I find it comical how ESTJs will look at a given problem within a very constricted frame of mind and then make up their minds based on various shorthand considerations. I wish they'd take a broader view of a given situation before acting. And its even worse with ESFJs.

I have a friend who would never trust an ESFJ to make any decisions except maybe what to have for lunch at meetings.

 

[kristin]

I've known at least three ESTJs well in my life - one of them is my father. Here's the common thread that I see between them:

ESTJs that I have known seem to size up a person instantly to decide whether the person is a friend or foe. If they deem that person a friend, they are intensely loyal to them and defensive of anything someone else would say against them. If they deem that person to be a foe, I hope that person gets a three second headstart to the door!

They make excellent leaders, seem to be extremely competent and driven, and are typically very good in business. They have this sort of charm that I've never seen any other personality type exude so much.

They also lack patience, are very stubborn and not easily swayed, and if you start an argument with one (which I have), their anger can be astounding. It's really explosive and seems to come out of nowhere.

I highly value their rational thinking. And I love the fact that they say what they mean and don't mince words. You always know exactly where you stand.

When making decisions, they are very quick to decide, and it's extremely difficult to get them to re-analyze a decision. Being an INTJ myself, it frustrates me that they don't always analyze all of the possibilities before making a decision. For example, if I were going to purchase a computer, my tendency would be to do a lot of research, compare models and prices, and then come to a final, educated decision. My father is so driven to decide quickly that he might think of buying a computer at 9:00 AM one day and by 10:00 AM he's in the local computer store asking someone (that he has deemed competent) what the best model is. Out the door he goes at 10:30, computer in hand. Maybe the difference is that they are so trusting of people they have decided they like. I don't trust anyone to make my decisions for me - I might take into account their advice but ultimately I make the decision myself.